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Thread: RFI: WACO seige/massacre

  1. #1

    RFI: WACO seige/massacre

    Any trustworthy reading or media material regarding this topic? I was 19 when it happened, so maybe a retrospective look back would be good for me.

    thanks

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    The only thing I ever read that included some info was Cold Zero, by Christopher Whitcomb.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by theJanitor View Post
    Any trustworthy reading or media material regarding this topic? I was 19 when it happened, so maybe a retrospective look back would be good for me.

    thanks
    Official report

    https://www.justice.gov/archives/pub...s-introduction

    Official evaluation

    https://www.justice.gov/archives/pub...-april-19-1993

    Good book from a survivor, the recent miniseries is based on it I guess. Not exactly trustworthy but a first person account.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073Q44NVN...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

    Past that you kind of have to do your own legwork I think. The way I started was with sources from the community that had lived alongside the Branch Davidians long before the standoff. Then I moved on to reviewing the way the ATF and FBI had been conducting themselves in other operations that didn't make the news prior to the standoff. IMO it's hard to get good information from a single book because single books tend to develop a narrative so they're readable and that clouds things. Always remember Hanlon's Razor.

  4. #4
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    I found:

    Learning Lessons From Waco: When Parties Bring Their Gods to the Negotiation Table (Religion and Politics)
    by Jayne Docherty (Author)

    https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Less...Jayne+Docherty

    a useful read. It looks how the standard hostage paradigm of law enforcement at the time was not congruent with negotiating with unconventional religious beliefs:

    The description:
    Docherty (conflict studies, Eastern Mennonite Univ.) presents a conceptual model of worldview conflict, using the example of Waco to extract principles for negotiating with communities motivated by unconventional beliefs. Having researched transcripts of the negotiation tapes, official reports of events surrounding the negotiation, and interviews, she argues that parties with fundamentally different worldviews must first deal with reality, or "worldnaming," before they can begin to confront the issues. Docherty suggests that because they used different "naming, framing, and blaming" language, the two sides in the Waco negotiation were destined to fail. While the Branch Davidians' reality was based on values and spirituality, that of the FBI was scientific and goal-centered, and it dismissed the Davidians' attempts to communicate as "Bible babble." Docherty concludes with 14 lessons for future crisis negotiators dealing with such groups, not the least of which is that they must know their own worldview and work to understand that of the parties with whom they are negotiating. This book is doctoral candidate Docherty's thesis, as reflected in the hundreds of citations, footnotes, and discussions of other theoretical approaches. While the thesis is important and timely, the language is sometimes so academic that it may not be every negotiator's next read. For academic libraries. Julie Denny, Resolutions, Inc., Armenia, NY
    Not to give spoilers but for example, some of the negotiations confirmed apocalyptic beliefs as compared to talking down the Davidians.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Try this book:

    https://www.amazon.com/Stalling-Time.../dp/1400067251

    The author is the negotiator who handled a good part of the BD negotiations. As I recall he seemed to be close to getting a resolution when bigwigs in DC forced the FBI into finishing the siege.
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  6. #6
    Thanks, All

  7. #7
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    The only thing I ever read that included some info was Cold Zero, by Christopher Whitcomb.
    IMO a very good read about the HRT and the events he was involved in.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #8
    There was a mini series about it also.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/deta...wbr_pvt_aiv-20
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  9. #9
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theJanitor View Post
    Any trustworthy reading or media material regarding this topic? I was 19 when it happened, so maybe a retrospective look back would be good for me.

    thanks
    In addition, here's the 11th and 13th Congressional Reports on Waco.

    https://www.congress.gov/congression...-report/1037/1

    https://www.congress.gov/congression...e-report/749/1

    Most of the books, commentary, and especially the miniseries are extremely fictionalized. People have stated stuff on P-F.com Waco threads in the past that aren't even supported by witness interviews with the Branch Covidians themselves.....so, be careful what you read.
    Last edited by TGS; 04-09-2021 at 09:42 PM.
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  10. #10
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post

    Most of the books, commentary, and especially the miniseries are extremely fictionalized. People have stated stuff on P-F.com Waco threads in the past that aren't even supported by witness interviews with the Branch Covidians themselves.....so, be careful what you read.
    Is that where this damn virus came from??

    Son of a .....

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