Construction costs are out of control

[AKDoug]

It sucks to be whipsawed like this, but you seem to have a very good attitude, hopefully things will settle down a bit now.

No doubt there were some shenanigans going on to maximize profits, but I will be surprised if there are any significant consequences. The energy fiasco in February was similar (huge profits in a mostly unregulated market) and despite a lot of backlash and accusations as far as I have read there haven't been any real consequences.

I've been whip-sawed before, but not to this level. At some point you have to be professional about it and treat it as a learning experience. You are correct, there will likely be no repercussions on this. It will take end users like @Darth_Uno to band together in some sort of class action. Pretty tough to prove price fixing, especially in the COVID world and the mills being on both side of the border.

At any rate, I enjoy selling wood in the DIY market. We live in an area where people often build their own homes and other major projects. I take great pleasure in helping out young people building a cabin or small house to get started with. It's a unique place in America where this still happens. Lower prices will allow these folks to have a chance at that dream.

[Darth_Uno]

Nothing's going to happen. It's just lumber right? Hey, nobody forced you to buy it.

Except I kinda was, because I had contracts to build homes for people.

I'm not so self-centered as to lay all the blame on "greedy lumber companies" (whomever that may be), but in this case that may not be entirely untrue either.

[jh9]

Even basic concepts like meeting minutes and daily reports are totally ignored, and the less-easily-ignored RFIs and Submittals are still getting mugged daily. Almost every issue I see in the field can be tracked back to a mis-management in the office, out often simply because the guy (or girl, these days) managing the office doesn’t know his ass from his elbow when it comes to process.

As a preface, I don't intend for this to come off as too hostile. But we don't have these issues, so I'm not inclined to say it's some nationwide phenomenon.

TBH "meeting minutes" isn't really an industry-specific problem. And it can be solved by approaching the issue from the perspective that this task doesn't necessarily need a human or-- and this irritates some people-- letting some of these "meetings" be the 2-3 message email chain they should have been in the first place. Or just another thread in Slack/Teams. Which, if it helps, you can think of as a crowdsourced way for the team to collectively create meeting minutes. Either way you want to do it, sitting in a conference room and talking or using some messaging software, the end result is the same.

There are absolutely different generational approaches to even simple tasks once they start to involve technology. And once your workforce's dominant generation has shifted your process is what needs to adapt. Unless you want to be surrounded by a failing business just out of spite. Consider the reason you can find and retain people is because you're insisting on a dated environment that they either don't want to work in or is just so foreign that they're not going to be successful in. Once they outnumber you by some margin it's up to you whether you want to go down with the ship using The Way We've Always Done It or adapt.

Daily reports are not special and if someone can't write a report from a given template but somehow managed to attain a 4-year degree then don't hire graduates from there anymore.

The rest sounds like domain-specific responsibilities that you say were never correctly trained to begin with. I'm not sure why you expect a different result.

Yeah I wish I could say Construction is alone there. I’ve drafted, and deleted, a coterie thread on this topic a half dozen times. Have t figured out how to get all the concepts from my brain to my fingertips yet.

In any case I think your title writes itself: "Millenials R Bad. How to Rob_S by Rob_S. Thoughts and Thinkings"

You'll need to flesh out the body, though.

[rob_s]

As a preface, I don't intend for this to come off as too hostile. But we don't have these issues, so I'm not inclined to say it's some nationwide phenomenon.

TBH "meeting minutes" isn't really an industry-specific problem. And it can be solved by approaching the issue from the perspective that this task doesn't necessarily need a human or-- and this irritates some people-- letting some of these "meetings" be the 2-3 message email chain they should have been in the first place. Or just another thread in Slack/Teams. Which, if it helps, you can think of as a crowdsourced way for the team to collectively create meeting minutes. Either way you want to do it, sitting in a conference room and talking or using some messaging software, the end result is the same.

There are absolutely different generational approaches to even simple tasks once they start to involve technology. And once your workforce's dominant generation has shifted your process is what needs to adapt. Unless you want to be surrounded by a failing business just out of spite. Consider the reason you can find and retain people is because you're insisting on a dated environment that they either don't want to work in or is just so foreign that they're not going to be successful in. Once they outnumber you by some margin it's up to you whether you want to go down with the ship using The Way We've Always Done It or adapt.

Daily reports are not special and if someone can't write a report from a given template but somehow managed to attain a 4-year degree then don't hire graduates from there anymore.

The rest sounds like domain-specific responsibilities that you say were never correctly trained to begin with. I'm not sure why you expect a different result.



In any case I think your title writes itself: "Millenials R Bad. How to Rob_S by Rob_S. Thoughts and Thinkings"

You'll need to flesh out the body, though.

I actually don't think "millennials are bad". I think that millennials as portrayed by Simon Sinek and other do-nothing personalities, as well as the media, have turned some millennials and even other generations into the caricature of millennials they've been presenting. This is why I usually reference "millenialization". I have some amazing millennials working for me. I'm even more excited by what I see in Gen Z.

The problem really isn't the people so much as it's the forgotten process and people that don't understand the downstream effects being allowed to make decisions that affect others and the company.

You don't want to have meetings and take minutes, and prefer an email? That's great. Show me that you can act, on your own, on the email alone, and we'll stick with emails. Too busy screwing off at the break truck all morning and having BBQ Fridays at the trailer to act on the emails? We're gonna need a meeting. and you're going to need to take notes.

Teams and Slack aren't nearly as widespread in my industry as they clearly are in others. My group uses Teams, and I'm trying to talk the Precon/Estimating department into using it (they use Zoom chat now, at least it's something). We have done some great things to move our department forward just through threads on Teams. But I can't have a Teams discussion with a subcontractor who doesn't have a computer and can't spell "iPhone". That's going to have to be a meeting. Sorry junior, you signed up for the construction bidness. If you wanted to solve everything with Teams you should have gone into tech or law or something.

The main problem I see, as I started to outline above, is that the current LEADERS missed out on the true meaning/value of various forms of documentation in their rapdi ascent to the top (due largely to the vaccuum left by knowledgeable people exiting early in 2008-2010, and then needing to rapidly fill their seats with un-trained people in 2011 and on).

Meeting Minutes aren't an administrative task.
They are a means, via the agenda, to communicate what will be discussed to everyone that is attending the meeting, as well as the date, time, and location and other attendees. Not having an agenda is just rude to your attendees. A "meeting" without an "agenda" is really just a "conversation", and I've attended enough of them now to see that play out. Minutes are meant to document consent. A good meeting facilitator will, at the end of the meeting, go back over the minutes paying particular attention to assignments and deadlines and say things like "ok, Bob, you've agreed to get X done by this Friday, is that correct?" Everyone is mad at meetings, but they don't publish agendas, don't keep the meeting on-task, don't publish minutes as a means to document consent, refuse to act on all the emails, texts, and Teams messages they've received prior to having no other choice but to meet, and then cry that "this should have been an email". See also, Death By Meeting.

Daily reports are not an administrative task.
This is how a field supervisor collects his thoughts at the end of the day, verifies manpower and deliveries, checks with his team to see if they accomplished their goals for the day, and uses all of that information to plan the next day.

I could go on, but these are two prime examples that are not industry specific that could be understood by lay people. And the kicker is, we DO have tech to make these things easier than they were even 5 years ago. The problem is that people doing them don't understand the true value in them, largely because the people above them never learned it and themselves just pouted and threw tantrums when ask to do them. it's like those people you see that have 6 figure jobs and a good education but are mad at their parents about how they were raised and now they are living up to their promise to themselves when they were twelve that "I'll never treat my kids like this" and wind up with one in jail and the other one pregnant, both living at home still.

[jh9]

By and large I don't disagree with much in your follow up. If you're using hand written notes as a punitive step to get people to do stuff they aren't doing when the same information comes through other channels I get that. But to me it doesn't sound like "old guys failing to teach young guys" as much as it just sounds like generic unprofessional behavior. The same people who even if they had been properly instructed would still be doing the same thing.

The same millennial demographic isn't nearly as problematic elsewhere. At least as far as I've seen.

[GJM]

WSJ article on lumber prices in today's paper. Gist is lumber prices have fallen, most of the way back, but builders plan to pocket those lumber cost savings as additional profit.

[Caballoflaco]

WSJ article on lumber prices in today's paper. Gist is lumber prices have fallen, most of the way back, but builders plan to pocket those lumber cost savings as additional profit.

That might work until a they have to start bidding new jobs at the current lower lumber prices.

[GJM]

That might work until a they have to start bidding new jobs at the current lower lumber prices.

It is behind a paywall but here is the article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lumber-...ss-11626260401



Isn’t it funny how gas stations raise their prices the moment gas goes up, but are slow to reduce prices as gas goes down.

[Borderland]

We're looking at buying a newly constructed house. We've talked to a few developers/builders who have houses under construction. I talked to one that had a waiting list for a new houses. Remember, this isn't a house that's even framed yet. A year doesn't seem to deter new buyers. There's no money involved in getting on the list but if your number comes up you have the right of refusal. The price of the house isn't set because the developer/builder wants see what it costs to build the house and tack on his 50% or whatever the profit margin is.

We were looking at a 1750 sq ft. single level house that had the floor framed but no walls. I estimated the finished cost to be around 600K judging by sales in the neighborhood of houses less than 20 years old. Generally one would pay about $275-$325 sq ft. I was told the cost would be around 800K for this new house when finished. Needless to say I had to ask again because I wasn't believing what I just heard. That works out to be about $460 sq ft.

It isn't just suppliers that are taking advantage of this market. Anyone who purchases a new house built this year may be wondering why their house will be losing value for the foreseeable future. Maybe they can make up the difference by financing 80% with a 3% loan.

[scw2]

It is behind a paywall but here is the article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lumber-...ss-11626260401



Isn’t it funny how gas stations raise their prices the moment gas goes up, but are slow to reduce prices as gas goes down.

I have heard several stories of builders backing out of new builds due to rising costs. I would have thought they'd lock in prices when they go under contract, but apparently that isn't the case. It's funny how the contracts only go one way and they don't re-negotiate to a lower cost if costs crater and their margins come in higher than initially forecast.