JCN’s take on modern fighting revolvers

[OlongJohnson]

I wouldn't do that.

"Performance Center" is worth whatever the script on the side of the gun is worth to you. I've seen no evidence that PC guns built in the last decade are in any way significantly different mechanically than ordinary Smiths, and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.

Having recently gone through an M&P 340, I can say there are sooo many sources of suck inside a modern S&W that have nothing to do with the spring, although the spring strut was a mess, too.

One of the inherent advantages of an S&W K/L/N is the fact that the hammer spring is essentially frictionless. It's held at one end and hooks a stirrup on the other, with nothing in between touching anything. That's a better starting place toward smooth than any coil spring/strut assembly can hope to be. And the small diameter pivot pins of the stirrup inherently have less friction than the mushroom head on the top of that spring strut.

I expect you'd be far better off having one of the reputable smiths like Karl Sokol or Frank Glenn go through the guns than getting some non-reversible aftermarket system installed.

If you want to DIY it yourself, get the Kuhnhausen book. It doesn't tell you how to tune it, but it does make sure you have a really good understanding of what can be wrong with one, so you know how to not screw it up.

[JTMcC]

I wouldn't do that.

"Performance Center" is worth whatever the script on the side of the gun is worth to you. I've seen no evidence that PC guns built in the last decade are in any way significantly different mechanically than ordinary Smiths, and quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.

Having recently gone through an M&P 340, I can say there are sooo many sources of suck inside a modern S&W that have nothing to do with the spring, although the spring strut was a mess, too.

One of the inherent advantages of an S&W K/L/N is the fact that the hammer spring is essentially frictionless. It's held at one end and hooks a stirrup on the other, with nothing in between touching anything. That's a better starting place toward smooth than any coil spring/strut assembly can hope to be. And the small diameter pivot pins of the stirrup inherently have less friction than the mushroom head on the top of that spring strut.

I expect you'd be far better off having one of the reputable smiths like Karl Sokol or Frank Glenn go through the guns than getting some non-reversible aftermarket system installed.

If you want to DIY it yourself, get the Kuhnhausen book. It doesn't tell you how to tune it, but it does make sure you have a really good understanding of what can be wrong with one, so you know how to not screw it up.

That 100% mirrors my take on "PC" guns, and, proper gunsmiths to get the best results in revolver work.

[JCN]

I expect you'd be far better off having one of the reputable smiths like Karl Sokol or Frank Glenn go through the guns than getting some non-reversible aftermarket system installed.

If you want to DIY it yourself, get the Kuhnhausen book. It doesn't tell you how to tune it, but it does make sure you have a really good understanding of what can be wrong with one, so you know how to not screw it up.

Thanks for the referral! I ordered the Kuhnhausen book!

The N-frames have that frame bulge built into them so the coil spring conversion looks to be easily reversible.
As for the PC label, I was thinking about it more regarding the parts that came with it (like the trigger with an overtravel stop).

Consistent with my quest of spending money to find out what I don’t know and not considering it a “waste,” I’m going to send in the guns to see what TK and Eli their gunsmith can do. They have a USPSA Revolver national champion on their roster so they’re at least in tune with what my usage pattern will be.

If it turns out to be not much difference, then it’s only money. At the pointy end, tenths matter so looking to go with a proven solution and then deconstruct it.

It helps me with my education. I like getting firsthand experience with things even if they’re not cost effective.

[JCN]

Found this description of the coil spring:

[TicTacticalTimmy]

One of the inherent advantages of an S&W K/L/N is the fact that the hammer spring is essentially frictionless. It's held at one end and hooks a stirrup on the other, with nothing in between touching anything. That's a better starting place toward smooth than any coil spring/strut assembly can hope to be.

This is my understanding as well: a leaf spring is inherently better for DA smoothness because you dont have to deal with friction from the hammer strut, or where the coil bottoms out, or the coils themselves binding against eachother. On the other hand the coil spring has the advantage of being stupid simple to change out, unlike a leaf spring where you proabbly have to modify the length of the strain screw if you want to change it out.

Also @AzShooter is a member here so maybe he has some insight on how this mod could work so well.

[AzShooter]

This is my understanding as well: a leaf spring is inherently better for DA smoothness because you dont have to deal with friction from the hammer strut, or where the coil bottoms out, or the coils themselves binding against eachother. On the other hand the coil spring has the advantage of being stupid simple to change out, unlike a leaf spring where you proabbly have to modify the length of the strain screw if you want to change it out.

Also @AzShooter is a member here so maybe he has some insight on how this mod could work so well.

Years ago I had one of my revolvers changed out for the recoil system instead of the leaf spring. The action was smoother. I kept the parts in case I ever want to do it again but new technique came out from Apex Tactical where they drastically reduced the weight of the hammer, used an 11 pound rebound spring and I was able to get a smooth 4.5 pound double action.

Recently they introduced a heavier hammer for the 617 and they claim to get a 6.5 pound trigger pull. I have one of the original hammers and mine will run some ammo at 6.5 pounds but at 8 pounds I can run all of the ammo I currently have on stock.

Hope this helps.

[JCN]

Years ago I had one of my revolvers changed out for the recoil system instead of the leaf spring. The action was smoother. I kept the parts in case I ever want to do it again but new technique came out from Apex Tactical where they drastically reduced the weight of the hammer, used an 11 pound rebound spring and I was able to get a smooth 4.5 pound double action.

Recently they introduced a heavier hammer for the 617 and they claim to get a 6.5 pound trigger pull. I have one of the original hammers and mine will run some ammo at 6.5 pounds but at 8 pounds I can run all of the ammo I currently have on stock.

Hope this helps.

I was reading on competition revolver forum that the speed of the hammer matters a lot for primer activation (1/2mv2) and lighter hammers accelerate quicker and impart more energy on the strike.
TK has a super skeletonized hammer that I think is even lighter than the Apex one. It'll be interesting on how the whole combination works together. I don't expect magic, but at least if you don't think there's a downside to it except cost I'm still super happy trying it out.

Unfortunately, I'm working with CCI primed ammo for the short to medium term due to bullet nose profiles which matter quite a bit for reloading speed.

[JCN]

Basically taking the gamer to the self defense application, Eli did the work on 4 time USPSA revolver champ Michael Poggie’s gun. That’s what I’m having done to my competition and fighting revolvers, albeit with more trigger weight for reliability with Speer / CCI.

[awp_101]

Speaking of Modern Fighting revolvers, I kind of wish I'd kept this gun around. But sadly, I got divorced (a long time ago) and really needed money.

Smith & Wesson 325PD Review

Attachment 70410

This thing was one of the biggest, dumbest, yet somehow must fun guns I ever owned

No, that’s eminently practical. THIS is big and dumb (and sort of calling my name)

[GJM]

I just did this. My wife’s reaction was “why.”

Hardest part is I keep trying to rack the slide between shots when dry firing.



PS: I told my wife it was a sub caliber trainer for this.