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Thread: Beretta 92 Drop Safety?

  1. #1

    Beretta 92 Drop Safety?

    So quick question.

    The other day I had a incident and lessoned learned. I dropped my holstered Beretta while putting it away for the night as I routinely do. I had other stuff/gear in my hands and my hands were a little slippery as well from dinner. Lessened learned! It dropped from my grasp at about 4 ft high and landed on the bottom edge of the grip(think of were a wilson mag guide goes. The muzzle was elevated around a 45 degree angle.

    The gun was still in its holster after hitting the wood floor but to my shock was in single action(not to half cock). I carefully picked it up and decocked, unloaded it and put it in my safe until I could further examine it. To be honest I was kinda unnerved about this whole incident as the single action is light on a tuned 92.


    So I will preface my question with the following:

    I know Berettas have passed all sorts of tests, NATO drop tests and domestic agency testing as well. It is probably one of the most tested and vetted pistols in this day and age.

    But is this sound normal? Could a tuned Beretta when dropped pull through the single action as well?

    The next day I looked over the cleared and safe gun and noticed no damage and functioned checked it. All good as I would expect and honestly not even a mark on it. I then replicated a drop the same way on a padded mat from about 3ft high and the gun went to single action through the inertia of the fall.

    This was on a Elite LTT with trigger job and 13lb spring. When I get time I may throw the D-spring in and replicate test.


    Just wanted to check with others and see what the consensus is.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Hammertime
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    First off: I have zero concerns about a Beretta being drop safe even in single action.

    Second: Do you think when you dropped it the slide and entire action moved on the rails and cocked the hammer? That is what I would suppose happened. I simply can't think of another way an uncocked hammer could cock on a drop.

    Of course it would likely eject any round in the chamber doing this. Was it loaded?

  3. #3
    Tactical Nobody Guerrero's Avatar
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    @EVP not sure if this directly answers your question, but you might find it interesting:

    "The victor is not victorious if the vanquished does not consider himself so."
    ― Ennius

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Glock View Post
    First off: I have zero concerns about a Beretta being drop safe even in single action.

    Second: Do you think when you dropped it the slide and entire action moved on the rails and cocked the hammer? That is what I would suppose happened. I simply can't think of another way an uncocked hammer could cock on a drop.

    Of course it would likely eject any round in the chamber doing this. Was it loaded?
    Yes it was loaded. It could have, but I don’t know for sure. It did not spit out a round, it also remained in the holster the whole time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    @EVP not sure if this directly answers your question, but you might find it interesting:


    I have seen those drop tests as well as the RDO drop tests. Those videos are great as much as I don’t like seeing a 92 being dropped on concrete. Appreciate Ernest sacrificing a 92for education.

    My concern was it being in single action and if the extra inertia from a higher fall could cause a single action press. Also my LTT elite has a x300u and I was thinking maybe the extra weight created extra inertia. But I don’t know.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    I am not surprised that the pistol was found with the hammer cocked after being dropped so that the muzzle was at about 45 degrees upward as described. To me, it appears inertia cocked the hammer. When the pistol hit the ground, the frame stopped, but the hammer's inertia made it continue. Since the hammer pivots around the hammer pin, the hammer's inertia would cause the hammer to move towards the cocked position. This is what you noted and makes sense based on how easy it is to cock the hammer with a thumb.

    The interesting thing to note is the trigger's inertia means the trigger should continue traveling rearward, like pulling the trigger. The trigger return spring would have to be overcome to allow the trigger to move rearward enough to fire. That spring pressure appears to be sufficient to not allow the trigger to travel enough to fire the pistol even from the single-action sear position.

    So your question is, "Could the pistol fire if dropped like this?" The answer is, "No". Two reasons: 1) the hammer movement is towards the cocked position from the fall, and 2) the drop safety holding the firing pin in position is still engaged until the trigger is fully moved rearward. If the pistol was dropped so that the muzzle is down, the inertial of the hammer drives the hammer toward the firing pin and drives the trigger forward. The pistol will still not fire because the trigger has not been pulled, and the firing pin safety is still holding the firing pin in position.

    [ETA] Watching EL drop that pistol was painful.[/ETA]
    Last edited by farscott; 04-01-2021 at 12:29 PM.

  6. #6
    Hammertime
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    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    I am not surprised that the pistol was found with the hammer cocked after being dropped so that the muzzle was at about 45 degrees upward as described. To me, it appears inertia cocked the hammer. When the pistol hit the ground, the frame stopped, but the hammer's inertia made it continue. Since the hammer pivots around the hammer pin, the hammer's inertia would cause the hammer to move towards the cocked position. This is what you noted and makes sense based on how easy it is to cock the hammer with a thumb.
    I still find it pretty hard to understand how a very lightweight hammer could cock itself against the force of the hammer spring. Inertia does not seem like a strong enough force.

    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    The interesting thing to note is the trigger's inertia means the trigger should continue traveling rearward, like pulling the trigger. The trigger return spring would have to be overcome to allow the trigger to move rearward enough to fire. That spring pressure appears to be sufficient to not allow the trigger to travel enough to fire the pistol even from the single-action sear position.
    Don't forget that the trigger bar which weighs approximately as much as the trigger and has to move in the opposite direction to release the sear is also under that inertia and I believe the inertial effects of the trigger bar and trigger essentially cancel themselves out in any front or rear impact.
    Last edited by Doc_Glock; 04-01-2021 at 01:05 PM.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Glock View Post
    I still find it pretty hard to understand how a very lightweight hammer could cock itself against the force of the hammer spring. Inertia does not seem like a strong enough force.

    Don't forget that the trigger bar which weighs approximately as much as the trigger and has to move in the opposite direction to release the sear is also under that inertia and I believe the inertial effects of the trigger bar and trigger essentially cancel themselves out in any for or rear impact.
    The trigger bar is something I had not considered. It plays a larger role than the trigger return spring.

    As for the inertia, the velocity is high enough to impart significant inertia to the hammer. A quick calculation for a 2-meter drop resulted in a velocity of about 6.25 m/s (20.5 feet/s) at impact. It has been thirty years since I did similar calculations, so I could be wrong. The numbers do seem feasible/sensible. Watching EL's video, drops consistently resulted with a cocked hammer, either in the single-action or half-cock positions.

  8. #8
    Y’all bring good points and considerations and are smarter then me!

  9. #9
    I dropped a PPK off the bed one time. I think it cycled the slide, cocked the hammer and chambered a round. Pretty scary.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Glock View Post
    I still find it pretty hard to understand how a very lightweight hammer could cock itself against the force of the hammer spring. Inertia does not seem like a strong enough force.
    This.

    The slide is a different story. I don't have a DA/SA Beretta, but I tried this with a Sig P226. Loaded two snap caps in the mag, ran the slide to put one in the chamber. Pulled the slide back slowly until the click of the cocking into single action. The case head was nowhere near the ejector. The case mouth was actually still in the chamber, and the snap cap in the mag was still controlled downward by the slide.

    So if the relevant geometries are sufficiently similar, and I reckon they are, when you dropped the gun muzzle-up, the slide moved back far enough to cock the hammer due to its inertia, and then slid back into battery. No mystery, nothing wrong with the gun, no chance of it firing unless you follow up by actuating the trigger.

    Decock it and try not to drop your gun so much.
    .
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