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Thread: Chauvin trial

  1. #111
    critical race weary blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    With regard to the (3?) charges against Ofc. Chauvin, can somebody summarize what the possible sentencing outcomes are for each, if guilty, and who decides the sentence? I assume they are a range of prison sentences involved?

    Iím also confused, since I donít know how this works, but why is he charged with three varying levels of crime?
    I won't comment on the first, but as to the second, this is often done where the prosecution hedges its bets in the event that the jury does not feel that the elements for one or more of the charges were met (beyond a reasonable doubt).

    Gives the prosecution a greater opportunity to walk away with a win, if not the one they were striving for.

    (And may or may not reduce the number of dumpster fires to come.)
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  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I largely agree, and it's what I've said from the beginning. Holding him Floyd face down for so long was against current training and I can't think of a justification for it. It's both excessive force and failure to render aid. I don't think it's Murder, but it might be MN's Murder 3. We don't have a 'depraved heart' standard, so I'm not entirely sure how one proves it, but if a callous disregard for life qualifies I think you might sell a jury on holding someone down after they don't have a pulse as callous disregard.
    COMPLETELY absolutely disagree

    Look... if modern social media has not encouraged you to be skeptical of videos promoted on social media. I can't help you. You are what certain German's would refer to as useful ID10Ts. But anyone in LE should be VERY skeptical of all social media daily outrage virus.

    There is a reason these are MEANT to evoke emotions not reason.

    I'm pretty serious about that accusation by the way. Seriously you should check your cognition on this one.

    Video on badge cam shows that Chauvin may have been on Floyd's back and shoulder blade NOT on his neck. In fact the prosecution (telegraphing that video evidence will show the knee to neck meme was false??? is now saying "Neck Area" in an attempt to conflate where Chauvin was kneeling). So... what about if Chauvin WAS NOT on the Perps neck?

    Also Floyd himself REQUESTED to be on the ground NOT held in a squad car. Granted he was out of his mind on Illegal Drugs he crammed in his mouth to evade drugs being seized by the cops... but in any case. Floyd REQUESTED DEMANDED to be on the ground. What do you want Ofc Chauvin to do? Ask Floyd nicely to stay put.

    The preference was for Floyd to be IN THE BACK OF THE POLICE VEHICLE. And if all these Officers could look into the future, they would have PUT his A$$ in the car and let him OD in there... not on the street where someone would have to have stayed on top of him to keep him put.

    This was a tragedy of epic proportions but it's a lock that the Perp being 6'6 figured into EVERYONES thinking here.

    To say from a Police Arm chair... Oh gosh Ofc Chauvin is guilty of X, Y Z offenses does NOT account for making decisions in real time. For example, there is a near certainty that ALL 4 officers did not KNOW Floyd had ingested his deadly overdose of drugs. Drugs that likely killed him (regardless of police actions).


    A very vocal and very angry crowd was shouting at the officers as they were merely trying to arrest Floyd. Question to you Blue Arm Chair... do you REALLY want Perps to think they can resist arrest to the point of getting a crowd around and THEN claim they Can't Breathe? EVERY SINGLE TIME?

    LE needs to get on the program or believe me the Populace WILL NOT support you. Normies DO NOT SEE the Floyd encounters that happen every day. They see the videos. LE people NEED to stop saying fellow officers are guilty of X,Y or Z if they have been on the beat. If so they KNOW these things don't always go smooth and perps ALWAYS try things.

    Just as Floyd did. The true tragedy is that if Floyd had cooperated right away he WOULD likely have been alive today. His family would be millions poorer... but still alive.

  3. #113
    None of that addresses the fact @BehindBlueIís is correct in that keeping a suspect on his stomach while you place your weight on his torso for that long is against currently understood training and best practices. One of the trainee officers mentioned to Chauvin that he suspected Floyd was experiencing a case of excited delirium and Chauvin replied that what why he had him on his stomach. That is contrary to all training Iíve ever received for suspected ED cases.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  4. #114
    happy sharps enabler Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    That is contrary to all training Iíve ever received for suspected ED cases.
    I find that easy to believe. The question arises: what was Chauvinís training? Iím asking seriously; we had a high-profile case in my area that had an ED component in a restraint death, and it generated a lot of discussion around best practices, so Iím curious if anyone has seen anything concrete on the training given to MPD, because I donít have any idea, myself.
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  5. #115
    IS WHAT PLANTS CRAVE BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by javanomad View Post
    COMPLETELY absolutely disagree

    Look... if modern social media has not encouraged you to be skeptical of videos promoted on social media. I can't help you. You are what certain German's would refer to as useful ID10Ts. But anyone in LE should be VERY skeptical of all social media daily outrage virus.

    There is a reason these are MEANT to evoke emotions not reason.
    Cool. Check the Code of Conduct or your time here will be very short.

    As I've mentioned, I've been in this situation. I had a fight with a guy who was bigger than me, hyped up on drugs, and uncontrollable. He broke my hand in the fight and I was in a cast for 8 weeks afterward. Not I broke my hand punching him, he broke my hand by forcing my thumb down against my forearm. It was a very serious fight with two of us on him. He died after the fight.

    I was, of course, investigated and sued. You know what I was charged with? Nothing. You know what I and my city paid out? Nothing. You know why? Because I had a *personal* recorder, well before we were issued body cameras, that proved I made him lay on his side and held him on his side as best I could while injured until medics got there. The sheriff's dept, however, paid out. They put him on his stomach while cuffed and he died of excited delirium/positional asphyxiation.

    Once someone is reasonably controlled and in your custody, it's your duty to attempt to care for them. Even if they are assholes. Even if they tried to kill you. Even if they are overdosing. Social media outrage has nothing to do with it. Doing the job legally and ethically does.
    Important rule change regarding political discussion here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....58#post1151858

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  6. #116
    https://www.startribune.com/defense-...ied/600045363/

    expert witness for the defense saying chauvin was justified

  7. #117
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    So for those who have been watching, have the medical experts for the defense been as good as the medical experts for the prosecution?

    The MSM coverage is so slanted I can't watch.

  8. #118
    The defense had not called a medical consultant the last time I looked, they were kicking around use of force policy. Maybe something this afternoon.
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  9. #119
    Kinetic Clusterf*ck Guerrero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccmdfd View Post
    So for those who have been watching, have the medical experts for the defense been as good as the medical experts for the prosecution?

    The MSM coverage is so slanted I can't watch.
    Andrew McCarthy (no liberal, he) over at National Review seems to think that the defense is getting its ass handed to it:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-on-the-stand/

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/...-defense-case/
    "A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very, very dangerous man who has it under voluntary control."
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  10. #120
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    My non-legal opinion is that the last defense medical examiner was counter productive. He basically pushed the coincidence theory based on Floyd's history as first option. Then he implied contributory factors - it was a mix, but despite it being a mix, if you were part of the mix, you are on trial for that. The prosecutor asked if the death was purely coincidence . It was not answered but then they adjourned, so that statement was the last thing the jury heard and will stick in their memory.

    However, he also mentioned carbon monoxide being a possible cause. Why say that (of course, it could be true) - the reason Floyd was exposed to such was being kept there for the period of time. Uh?

    The defense should have known he would say that. Now, if he honestly believed that - of course, he is bound to say that - do you want to call him then?

    I've testified a little bit and we went over what I was to testify to. If a factor was counterproductive, you don't ask that. I've told lawyers that factor X is contrary to their story, so don't ask that. I'll answer truthfully what I am asked. If they ask X, I will truthfully speak to that. That really pissed one off. You can get folks to say different things if the price is right, sigh.

    Listened to the podcast - made sense to me that the defense is in trouble.
    Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; 04-14-2021 at 04:51 PM.

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