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Thread: Primary Machine stopping custom milling

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by GearFondler View Post
    Part of my frustration with Primary Machine was their insistence on sending in your RDS with the slide for "a perfect cut". I understand their reasons to a point, wanting to get an exact fit, but it is totally unnecessary and had to add a lot of extra time and effort to each slide done.
    And now with pre-made slides they are finally agreeing, without admitting it, that custom fit pockets are not needed... Perhaps if they had dropped that requirement sooner they could still be offering slide cuts.
    Interesting and clever observation regarding the pre-made slides. I never liked how shallow PM appeared to mount on CZ so Iíve worked with CZC and CGW instead, and now with more manufacturers jumping into optics ready itís still a net benefit to the majority of shooters.

    Quote Originally Posted by TicTacticalTimmy View Post
    I disagree. As an example, I bought a Primary Machine P09 Deltapoint slide from a forum member here and had to use a rubber mallet to coax the Deltapoint into place. That gives me the warm and fuzzies, like the screws are the secondary and not primary means of affixing the optic to the slide.

    My Holosun P09 slide I had done by them came with the optic I sent in installed so i dont know how tight it is, but it sure seems perfect.

    By contrast, I had an RMR cut P07 slide done by a different company. The Holosun really wasnt perfectly tight until the screws were tightened down, leading me to feel that the screws were taking a good chunk of the recoil forces.

    Similarly, on my LTT RDO slide the Holosun didn't feel totally secured until it was tightened down with screws.

    Maybe it doesnt matter.... the aforementioned Holosun on the P07 never came lose in a couple thousand rounds. I just got the LTT so it hasn"t gotten much of a test yet. It just seems less secure than the "custom fit" way.

    All of the above would be irrelevent if we could adopt the ACRO or Holosun 509 footprint as an industry standard, just sayin'
    You are disagreeing (initially at least?) but as you acknowledge itís based on feelings. Iíve shot plenty using CZC adapter plates and multi-optic cuts with little issue. I believe proper install and the quality of the optic are the major factors. Walther is standing behind their PDP engineering but I donít know how custom their plate fit is to the optic itself. And also regarding tight fits - I had to use a rubber mallet to install a CZ barrel bushing but it can still shoot loose if I donít install the front sight pin. I imagine a 1911 plunger tube might fit snug but youíd still want to stake that as well.
    When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. -Tuco
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday... -Miyamoto Musashi

  2. #42
    Site Supporter GearFondler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I believe they were more motivated by a ďperfect installation,Ē than a ďperfect fit.Ē Lots of people strip screws their first install or two, without proper tools.
    If that was their intention they sure hid it well behind their marketing spiel. They very clearly stated how their custom fit pockets were far superior to generic pockets and their installing of the optic was simply a customer service extra they threw in for free.
    Quote Originally Posted by TicTacticalTimmy View Post
    I disagree. As an example, I bought a Primary Machine P09 Deltapoint slide from a forum member here and had to use a rubber mallet to coax the Deltapoint into place. That gives me the warm and fuzzies, like the screws are the secondary and not primary means of affixing the optic to the slide.

    My Holosun P09 slide I had done by them came with the optic I sent in installed so i dont know how tight it is, but it sure seems perfect.

    By contrast, I had an RMR cut P07 slide done by a different company. The Holosun really wasnt perfectly tight until the screws were tightened down, leading me to feel that the screws were taking a good chunk of the recoil forces.

    Similarly, on my LTT RDO slide the Holosun didn't feel totally secured until it was tightened down with screws.

    Maybe it doesnt matter.... the aforementioned Holosun on the P07 never came lose in a couple thousand rounds. I just got the LTT so it hasn"t gotten much of a test yet. It just seems less secure than the "custom fit" way.

    All of the above would be irrelevent if we could adopt the ACRO or Holosun 509 footprint as an industry standard, just sayin'
    I'm not going to argue that a custom cut pocket isn't better than a generic cut pocket on some minute level... I just believe that whatever increases it may offer are unnecessary while also potentially locking you out of using a different optic in the future.
    I have two precut slides, one from Suarez and one from Zev. The Suarez slide pocket snuggly fit my RM06 with almost no discernable movement... Almost. I later installed a 508T on that slide and had to scrape off the finish to get it to sit flush within the pocket. I have no doubt that had I had a slide milled for my RM06 example I would then never have been able to install my 508T example on that slide.
    The Zev slide fit that RM06 with slightly more movement when dropped in but became rock solid when I added the sealer plate and locked down the screws. It's not going anywhere any sooner than if it had been custom milled.
    Again, I'm not saying that a custom cut isn't an arguably more secure method, just that the extra security is unnecessary and not worth the additional hassle it requires. But that's just my opinion and I could be wrong... Except now it seems Primary Machine also agrees with me.

  3. #43
    Wag more, Bark less RJ's Avatar
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    Looks like their optics ready slides are available to order, $249.99 for G17/19/34, for RMR, SRO, 507, black nitride standard, w channel liner:

    https://primarymachine.com/glock-o-r...rmr-sro-ready/
    "Don't f*** with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." --BehindBlueI's

  4. #44
    Following up on Wright Armory, I got a very professional (and after hours) response from them that confirms they do P30 optics installations, with a complete and thorough price list and timeline.

    The cost is as expected, and they want to have the optic in hand, but it is definitely an option.

    I canít imagine choosing anything less than an RMR for this sort of thing.

  5. #45
    Site Supporter David S.'s Avatar
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    The PMO cost and complication is the primary reason I left the P30 lineup.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    Following up on Wright Armory, I got a very professional (and after hours) response from them that confirms they do P30 optics installations, with a complete and thorough price list and timeline.

    The cost is as expected, and they want to have the optic in hand, but it is definitely an option.

    I canít imagine choosing anything less than an RMR for this sort of thing.
    Thanks. What do you mean by anything less than RMR? Reliability/durability?I thought the Deltapoint Pro was GTG at this point. Wider footprint?

    Iím maybe a little too attached to the P30 at this point, been shooting it primarily for the last 8 years (before that M&P, Glock, 1911s). It fits my needs and Iím invested in them. I get that itís a hard way to get into red dots, but looks easier than starting over with a new platform and all the gear.

    Thanks again.

  7. #47
    Member zpelletier's Avatar
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    Edit: @RJ beat me to it

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JDB View Post
    Thanks. What do you mean by anything less than RMR? Reliability/durability?I thought the Deltapoint Pro was GTG at this point. Wider footprint?

    Iím maybe a little too attached to the P30 at this point, been shooting it primarily for the last 8 years (before that M&P, Glock, 1911s). It fits my needs and Iím invested in them. I get that itís a hard way to get into red dots, but looks easier than starting over with a new platform and all the gear.

    Thanks again.
    This is a personal matter. If youíre going to depend on the pistol, and spend the cost of a high end optic simply to modify the slide to accept a specific optic, then I personally want what I have proven to myself to be the most dependable option. For me, at this time, that is the RMR, though I also carry pistols with SROís with zero concerns. Some people find the DPP or other options to meet their needs, and I do not for various specific reasons.

    Youíll find plenty of advocates for just about everything out there. Some have done the work to vet their choices and some have not.

    By the way, to your point concerning staying with a platform you are attached to, I get that. But with training comes certain degree of flexibility- I have no problem switching between 1911 - P7 - P226/229 - P320 - VP9 - P30 or irons/dot and back as needed or wanted, at a reasonable level of competence on demand, but I put a lot of time into each of those at one time or another.

    (Heinleinís dictum on specialization and insects comes to mind.)

  9. #49
    3 YARD SNIPER awp_101's Avatar
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    I havenít dug around yet, but are there any quality, aftermarket optic ready Gen 5 17/19/34 slides out there or is it MOS only for now?
    Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain

    All generalizations are incorrect, including this one.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    This is a personal matter. If youíre going to depend on the pistol, and spend the cost of a high end optic simply to modify the slide to accept a specific optic, then I personally want what I have proven to myself to be the most dependable option. For me, at this time, that is the RMR, though I also carry pistols with SROís with zero concerns. Some people find the DPP or other options to meet their needs, and I do not for various specific reasons.

    Youíll find plenty of advocates for just about everything out there. Some have done the work to vet their choices and some have not.

    By the way, to your point concerning staying with a platform you are attached to, I get that. But with training comes certain degree of flexibility- I have no problem switching between 1911 - P7 - P226/229 - P320 - VP9 - P30 or irons/dot and back as needed or wanted, at a reasonable level of competence on demand, but I put a lot of time into each of those at one time or another.

    (Heinleinís dictum on specialization and insects comes to mind.)

    I'm well aware of the reliability problems of the Deltapoint in the past, been following GJMs experience with it. But, it appears that's finally resolved. Maybe the RMR is still a better bet

    I don't shoot the P30 the best, its simply the best for my needs (short guy, appendix carry, just about the right size, totally bomber gun, hammer) at this time. I don't do a ton of USPSA, but 10 years ago had no problem making master class in IDPA using glocks and M&Ps. I shoot a beretta 92 at least as well as a P30. I get to play with plenty of other guns.
    I like the P30 for other reasons, trigger shortcomings aside.

    If I was starting over again, I'd might go for a CZ P-07. Or maybe a M&P 2.0 with TS. Having no plans to pursue GM in USPSA, a P30 works quite well.

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