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Thread: Trigger weight for “fighting revolver?”

  1. #11
    Site Supporter 03RN's Avatar
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    Aug 2017
    New Hampshire
    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    I know that's been said, but it's overly simplistic. If you eliminate roughness, friction will be reduced, and therefore the trigger press will be lightened, even with unmolested factory springs. This is in fact the state of my GPMC. I think it's pretty reasonable for a defensive trigger, but I have no doubt that if 10 GPMCs were sampled at random, new out of the box, it's likely that 10 of them would measure with heavier trigger presses.

    It also brings up the question of what "factory specs" are. Take Beretta 92s. There are US military armorer's manuals available online that provide trigger press weight specs. But Erik has explained previously that Beretta has no internal factory trigger press weight spec. The spec is functionally-based: it must indent a NATO-spec primer to a minimum depth.

    I could go further, but I'll kind of wave my hands in that direction by saying a P320 without a mechanical external safety is widely regarded as "safe enough," including by the manufacturer and many agencies that have signed up to put tens of thousands of them in the holsters of our public servants.

    The "not lighter than factory" standard will get a DA press that has a much longer travel, requiring more force to start moving and A LOT more force to release the hammer to be deemed "not safe." I couldn't defend that situation on the basis of any fundamental engineering principle.
    Plus, iirc, Mas has cited a case where someone cocks their gun, shoots, then flees the scene.

    I would venture to guess if he stayed put they wouldn't have looked for extra charges on what might of been a good shoot.

  2. #12
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    "carbine-infested rural (and suburban) areas"
    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    Plus, iirc, Mas has cited a case where someone cocks their gun, shoots, then flees the scene.

    I would venture to guess if he stayed put they wouldn't have looked for extra charges on what might of been a good shoot.
    I'm not familiar with that one. However, there are two cases that are often brought up where the case became about "negligence" due to allegedly or actually pre-cocking a revolver. In both the cases I'm thinking of, it got started down that path when the person who shot initially claimed he did not intend to shoot, then later changed to claiming having shot in self-defense. That element is often left out of the discussion of those two cases.
    Not another dime.

  3. #13
    I seem to recall a Miami-area officer being involved in a shooting. The state attorney, Janet Reno, claimed that the revolver had been cocked to SA and that the shot was fired in negligence rather than as an intention act (a legal strategy in a criminal case that I do not understand). Afterward, the PD in question converted all of their revolvers to DAO.

    Please forgive me, unmerciful interweb, if I am incorrect.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    Most of my k frames are 10/5 lbs but my m66-8 is 8/4 lbs. Ive only smoothed the insides. Ive never had an issue with light strikes, except for trying wolf magnum srp.

    I dont mind heavier triggers as long as there no weird hitches.
    That sounds very unbalanced. Normally a Smith DA-to-SA ratio is about 2.8 to 1.

  5. #15
    I have not shot one of those super duper 5 lb DA match revolvers, the lightest I have is my Colt Custom Shop "Tedford" Python at 7 lbs and it is a Federal primer only gun. Shooting more revolvers in the Covid/BLM/Antifa era, I have cinched down some strain screws and replaced Wolff with Smith mainsprings for reliability even in "range guns." Shooting a good smooth action seems no more difficult.

    One modification I did make was an overtravel stop. A revolver without trigger stop was less accurate than one with, even though it has the lighter weight of pull. So I put one in, the rod-in-rebound spring that Smith used to use in N frames. Kind of tedious to get the length of the rod right, but it required no drilling and tapping for a screw in or behind the trigger. The gun no longer has that backlash twitch of the barrel and accuracy is improved.

    My CCW revolvers are set to reliably fire reloads with CCI primers and are consequently trouble free with domestic name brand factory loads. My old M38 requires a stock mainspring, my M640, last of the stainless .38s, is good with a one step lighter spring set. My M12 is reliable the way FLG set it for the previous owner but I don't know the details, it is fine like it is.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  6. #16
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    SE Texas
    I like smooth. Light is not necessary, or, desirable. I have not installed lighter main springs in anything that did not already them when I bought the guns. My first GP100 does have a lighter trigger return spring, but, I do not need it, and wish I had just left the factory spring in place.

    I have bought customized guns, with lighter springs, and they have reliably ignited primers, so, I have left those particular springs alone.
    Retar’d LE

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  7. #17
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    Nov 2013
    My stock GP100 was easy enough to shoot, to the point where I could shoot a higher scoring B8 with it in DA than I could with a G17. That was and still is good enough for me.

    It's a smooth and even trigger press and that is probably why it was easier for me to shoot. My trigger pull gauge only goes to 8lbs but it is more than that. Single action is...unimportant because I use it so rarely.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  8. #18
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    Sep 2017
    South Louisiana
    My recently-bought 10-7 has the original 40-year-old factory springs in it but is smooth, so I see no reason to swap them out and have unused factory S&W springs if I do.

    I have three S&W revolvers that have been through the Performance Center for their Combat Revolver package. It could be argued that they are factory-spec. I wonder if that would fly in court?

  9. #19
    Stephanie is correct. It's why so many departments forbid trigger work on duty weapons. The "hair trigger" thing feeds into false allegations of manslaughter or wrongful death. It's easier to convince a jury that a good person was negligent than that they were evil. Most people have heard the phrase "justifiable homicide," but none of us ever hear "justifiable accident."

    I also agree with Trooper 224: smoothness is FAR more important than weight.

    FWIW, I've never heard an allegation that a double action trigger stroke of any weight constituted a "hair trigger conducive to unintended discharge." In the revolver days it was an epidemic allegation, always involving cocked guns, both with actual cocked gun tragedies and false allegations of same in political prosecutions such as the one Lee Weems mentioned here, Florida v. (Miami Police Officer) Luis Alvarez.. It's why so many of us still recommend DAO function for any defensive revolver these days, and why not so long ago so many agencies adopted DAO hammer-fired Berettas, SIGs, and HKs.

  10. #20
    King of Craft Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
    Redneck wonderland
    Quote Originally Posted by Mas View Post
    FWIW, I've never heard an allegation that a double action trigger stroke of any weight constituted a "hair trigger conducive to unintended discharge."
    Thanks @Mas. As a TDA user, I find this very helpful, and encouraging.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

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