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Thread: "Drawing on the drop"

  1. #11
    Unreconstructed Moylan's Avatar
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    It could be something by John Correia that I was thinking of and I didn't thank Mark D for posting that video...so, thanks, Mark! I don't believe the linked video is precisely what I am trying to call to mind, because I thought it had more detail than in this video. But this is the general idea--seeing the back for a 2 second draw, etc. That's definitely the kind of thing I'm talking about. Should have said that in my first reply. Sorry! I will poke around on the Active Self Protection channel and see if I find what I was looking for.
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    ...I will poke around on the Active Self Protection channel and see if I find what I was looking for.
    If you do find it, please share it.

  3. #13
    Member Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    I appreciate the replies to this thread, mostly, but I think my actual question is getting lost. I'm not asking about drawing on the drop in general or even about tactics in general. I'm asking if anyone can call to mind the article or video I'm ineffectually trying to find. I described it roughly in the OP.

    To repeat. There was some sort of study produced by someone somewhere in some format. Specific enough yet? The basic idea was as follows. In a situation where A is held at gunpoint by B, we all know that A cannot draw his gun and fire at B before B fires at A. But if B's attention is drawn away from A for a certain portion of time, this might allow A to draw and fire successfully. This article/video/whatever I am thinking of did some timer tests or whatever on what percentage B's face would have to be directed away from A before A could successfully engage. Does this ring any bells for anyone?

    That's the question I'm asking.

    Trooper, if it helps you find peace with all this silly duding, I really do assure you it's not a tactical question, despite the forum--picked because it seemed perhaps one of the least inappropriate fora for the issue, rather than because I'm wargaming the topic for reals--and I'm just curious, in a dudely sort of way. I do appreciate the reminder, however, that Miami Vice was fiction. I do forget sometimes.
    No personal criticism meant. It's all open for discussion bro.

    My point was a very general one. That scene from Miami Vice (of which I'm a fan) has been broken down and analyzed here and elsewhere ad nauseum, almost more than videos of actual shootings. Of course, no one in those vids were wearing cool aviator shades and rocking to Jan Hammer.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be hear again.......

  4. #14
    Deleted for relevancy

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    It could be something by John Correia that I was thinking of and I didn't thank Mark D for posting that video...so, thanks, Mark! I don't believe the linked video is precisely what I am trying to call to mind, because I thought it had more detail than in this video. But this is the general idea--seeing the back for a 2 second draw, etc. That's definitely the kind of thing I'm talking about. Should have said that in my first reply. Sorry! I will poke around on the Active Self Protection channel and see if I find what I was looking for.
    You might also check on Force Science.

    You might also google 'creating lag time'

  6. #16
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    Trooper2224, I'm sure you realize that we were really cool ack in the 1980's. I'm surprised Michael Mann didn't base a couple of spin-off hit shows based on us.

    When I still had some relevance, I sometimes used clips from entertainment television or movies during in-service training. Often, it was to wake people up after lunch or provide some motivation. On occasion, you can find something like the referenced video that shows exactly what you may want to illustrate. While we now have tons of video of actual shootings, Hollywood usually provides better visuals than BWC, security, or dash-cam coverage. We're also not criticizing an actual cop who may have made an error any of us may have made. Hey, Brad Pitt has a way cooler and better compensated life than I ever had. He can tale some criticism of his fictional cop work.

    I will remark that an instructor needs to be extremely careful in selecting movie/TV clips for training. I recently read a review of a case in which the training program's use of the Chris Rock "How Not to Get your A-- by the Cops" presentation was used. Extremely funny and probably somewhat accurate, but not to be used in training.

  7. #17
    critical race weary blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    Trooper2224, I'm sure you realize that we were really cool ack in the 1980's. I'm surprised Michael Mann didn't base a couple of spin-off hit shows based on us.

    When I still had some relevance, I sometimes used clips from entertainment television or movies during in-service training. Often, it was to wake people up after lunch or provide some motivation. On occasion, you can find something like the referenced video that shows exactly what you may want to illustrate. While we now have tons of video of actual shootings, Hollywood usually provides better visuals than BWC, security, or dash-cam coverage. We're also not criticizing an actual cop who may have made an error any of us may have made. Hey, Brad Pitt has a way cooler and better compensated life than I ever had. He can tale some criticism of his fictional cop work.

    I will remark that an instructor needs to be extremely careful in selecting movie/TV clips for training. I recently read a review of a case in which the training program's use of the Chris Rock "How Not to Get your A-- by the Cops" presentation was used. Extremely funny and probably somewhat accurate, but not to be used in training.
    A couple of our guys had minor extra roles on Miami Vice back in the day.

    Couple of funny anecdotes:

    Once, Don Johnson was stopped by a local LEO, FHP or other highway unit, and tried to get off with the "I'm Sunny Crockett" routine. He was advised "that isn't a real badge" and written up.

    Other was a load of sham coke somehow ended up in the Miami River causing what you may well imagine was quite a cluster.

    It was an "interesting" place to work for 17 years.
    ...and just like that, I woke up one morning and the America I knew and loved was gone.

  8. #18
    Member Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    Trooper2224, I'm sure you realize that we were really cool ack in the 1980's. I'm surprised Michael Mann didn't base a couple of spin-off hit shows based on us.

    When I still had some relevance, I sometimes used clips from entertainment television or movies during in-service training. Often, it was to wake people up after lunch or provide some motivation. On occasion, you can find something like the referenced video that shows exactly what you may want to illustrate. While we now have tons of video of actual shootings, Hollywood usually provides better visuals than BWC, security, or dash-cam coverage. We're also not criticizing an actual cop who may have made an error any of us may have made. Hey, Brad Pitt has a way cooler and better compensated life than I ever had. He can tale some criticism of his fictional cop work.

    I will remark that an instructor needs to be extremely careful in selecting movie/TV clips for training. I recently read a review of a case in which the training program's use of the Chris Rock "How Not to Get your A-- by the Cops" presentation was used. Extremely funny and probably somewhat accurate, but not to be used in training.
    Yes, I was there and I suspect we all weren't nearly as cool as we thought.

    I loved the Chris Rock video and Buck Savage was the best thing to happen to police training.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be hear again.......

  9. #19
    Member Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    A couple of our guys had minor extra roles on Miami Vice back in the day.

    Couple of funny anecdotes:

    Once, Don Johnson was stopped by a local LEO, FHP or other highway unit, and tried to get off with the "I'm Sunny Crockett" routine. He was advised "that isn't a real badge" and written up.

    Other was a load of sham coke somehow ended up in the Miami River causing what you may well imagine was quite a cluster.

    It was an "interesting" place to work for 17 years.
    I'm continually amused by the fact they hired one of the biggest dopers in Hollywood to play a vice cop. They really didn't need any technical advisors on that front.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be hear again.......

  10. #20
    critical race weary blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    I'm continually amused by the fact they hired one of the biggest dopers in Hollywood to play a vice cop. They really didn't need any technical advisors on that front.
    "Hey pal!!!"

    ...and just like that, I woke up one morning and the America I knew and loved was gone.

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