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Thread: DAO guns - general discussion/random finds

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss View Post


    Yep. That's my big concern. I know it's a gamble, but I think I'd regret it later if I passed it up.
    I have a 92DX that has a front sight that leans slightly to one side. This can be seen when focusing on the top of the front sight--however, because the sight is a "drive the dot" style and the rear sight is a U-notch, I've found that, when actually shooting, I don't notice the angle of the front sight. It's annoying that Beretta would let them out the door that way, but not enough to make me forego owning one--or three


  2. #42
    My life is becoming increasingly revolver-centric in two niches: the J-frame niche, and the Woods Gun niche. The Glock 19 has increasingly become an outlier in the "Mid-size gun that I need a cover garnet to conceal" niche.

    I have a significant amount of money in Glock 19s, but as I consider the cost of changing them all to red dots, I'm also considering changing platforms for the first time in 15 years. I know plenty of people do it, but I just don't like carrying a striker-fired gun AIWB, and I'd like to have common-ish trigger strokes across the board.

    If Beretta came out with a 92 compact, DAO that was cut for optics, I might have to put a substantial number of Glock 19s on the chopping block.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  3. #43
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    DAO guns - general discussion/random finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    My life is becoming increasingly revolver-centric in two niches: the J-frame niche, and the Woods Gun niche. The Glock 19 has increasingly become an outlier in the "Mid-size gun that I need a cover garnet to conceal" niche.

    I have a significant amount of money in Glock 19s, but as I consider the cost of changing them all to red dots, I'm also considering changing platforms for the first time in 15 years. I know plenty of people do it, but I just don't like carrying a striker-fired gun AIWB, and I'd like to have common-ish trigger strokes across the board.

    If Beretta came out with a 92 compact, DAO that was cut for optics, I might have to put a substantial number of Glock 19s on the chopping block.
    +1, headed roughly the same direction. Consumed lots of DB podcast time over the last six months and his ‘assessment speed’ discussions are striking a chord with me.


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  4. #44
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    SIG DAK

    I loved P229R DAK, at the first dry-fire, and live-fire only made it better. I would have preferred P226 or P220, but, at that time, in 2004, my only authorized SIG duty pistol choice was the P229. Notably, DAK was not forced upon me; DA/SA was the norm, for those of us who opted for SIG. (We had to buy our own duty firearms, so, we were voting with our wallets.) I never bothered with the shorter, first reset. The second, more-forward reset position provided the longer, but the sweeter trigger stroke. I saw no reason to try re-learning anything, especially as DA revolvers were/are still important to me.

    I retired my P229, due to the high bore axis, the light alloy frame, and, the then-mandated .40 S&W becoming .40 Snap & Whip, due to my arthritis in my right thumb, habd, and wrist. When my chief OK’ed 9mm duty pistols, in September 2015, I bought a low-bore-axis Gen4 G17 orthopedic pistol, and qual’ed with it at my October qualification. (Gen4 fit me MUCH better than the Gen3 G22 pistols I used on duty from 2002 to 2004.)

    I still have my P229R DAK. It is now a lefty-only gun, which is OK, as I am a natural left-hander, who chose to carry on my right hip, for several reasons, ‘way back when. With fresh .40 S&W defensive ammo just beginning to show itself, again, I might even put it back into the home defense line-up.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    I loved P229R DAK, at the first dry-fire, and live-fire only made it better. I would have preferred P226 or P220, but, at that time, in 2004, my only authorized SIG duty pistol choice was the P229. Notably, DAK was not forced upon me; DA/SA was the norm, for those of us who opted for SIG. (We had to buy our own duty firearms, so, we were voting with our wallets.) I never bothered with the shorter, first reset. The second, more-forward reset position provided the longer, but the sweeter trigger stroke. I saw no reason to try re-learning anything, especially as DA revolvers were/are still important to me.

    I retired my P229, due to the high bore axis, the light alloy frame, and, the then-mandated .40 S&W becoming .40 Snap & Whip, due to my arthritis in my right thumb, habd, and wrist. When my chief OK’ed 9mm duty pistols, in September 2015, I bought a low-bore-axis Gen4 G17 orthopedic pistol, and qual’ed with it at my October qualification. (Gen4 fit me MUCH better than the Gen3 G22 pistols I used on duty from 2002 to 2004.)

    I still have my P229R DAK. It is now a lefty-only gun, which is OK, as I am a natural left-hander, who chose to carry on my right hip, for several reasons, ‘way back when. With fresh .40 S&W defensive ammo just beginning to show itself, again, I might even put it back into the home defense line-up.
    One of the biggest gifts that have ever been given to me as a someone who may someday have to defend his family was DBs comment here years ago about how many self-defense shootings happen with a loved one down range, interspersed with threats.

    That's essentially an in-extremis hostage rescue, without any of the benefits that come with being a patrol cop, much less a SWAT cop.

    Prior to that, I was training for a "reasonable" level of accuracy and deliberation in shooting. I have upped that game considerably.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  6. #46
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    One of the biggest gifts that have ever been given to me as a someone who may someday have to defend his family was DBs comment here years ago about how many self-defense shootings happen with a loved one down range, interspersed with threats.

    That's essentially an in-extremis hostage rescue, without any of the benefits that come with being a patrol cop, much less a SWAT cop.

    Prior to that, I was training for a "reasonable" level of accuracy and deliberation in shooting. I have upped that game considerably.
    Yes, indeed; accuracy, deliberation, and constantly assessing. Assessing everything.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    If Beretta came out with a 92 compact, DAO that was cut for optics, I might have to put a substantial number of Glock 19s on the chopping block.
    This setup could pretty easily be created with the Langdon red dot milling.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Noah View Post
    This setup could pretty easily be created with the Langdon red dot milling.
    Yes. And last night this conversation was the impetus to finally check out all the stuff Langdon is offering.

    It's compelling. And expensive. But if I make the jump, it might be the way to go.

    Right now is a shitty time to make a major switch. For one thing we just bought a new truck and camp trailer. We aren't broke, but I'm gonna want a few months of good book royalties before I go swapping guns around. The other is that while I have "enough" 9mm on hand to sustain my current skill level with a disciplined practice regimen, I don't want to burn the 10K rounds or so that I would want to 1) vet new guns and optics and 2) build skills on a new platform AND a new sighting system.

    So this whole thing will likely be shelved until we reach a new normal and the gun world, and I can go to a red dot-centric class.

    There's also a non-trivial chance the new "mid-sized belt guns hat requires a cover garment" niche will be filled by a Smith 66-8 with a red dot.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  9. #49
    Member wvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    One of the biggest gifts that have ever been given to me as a someone who may someday have to defend his family was DBs comment here years ago about how many self-defense shootings happen with a loved one down range, interspersed with threats.

    That's essentially an in-extremis hostage rescue, without any of the benefits that come with being a patrol cop, much less a SWAT cop.

    Prior to that, I was training for a "reasonable" level of accuracy and deliberation in shooting. I have upped that game considerably.
    I get what you're saying, and it sounds like you have made a rational decision in the plan for protecting you and yours.
    But I have a question. In the unfortunate instance of having to take that shot with a loved one down range, would you really choose the deliberateness of the DAO, or would you choose the "surgical" trigger of a 1911/2011? I honestly can't decide. On one hand, the B-8's don't lie, and favors the 2011 as far as group size, but the huge adrenaline dump that's gonna be involved in that type of shot does advocate for the DAO, in my case the 64-8.

    DB frustrates me a bit. Just when I think I have an action plan, it's like he walks up and dumps a 5 gallon bucket of realities and new things to consider on top of my head, "Here ya go, Sport". He makes it look so frigging easy, with the high standard of accuracy, shooting at assessment speed, and the muzzle discipline, but man, it's really a lot of work for this normal earth person. And I'm pretty damned grateful he share this with us.

    I wish I could be classy like @Trooper224, and rock the incredible 3rd Gen Smith & Wesson triplets like he is. But the lack of support for a discontinued model scares me off. So really, I either stay with my 64-8, or go to a 92 D model, if I end up going to DAO.

    As far as book royalties go, check your PM's.
    "And for a regular dude I’m maybe okay...but what I learned is if there’s a door, I’m going out it not in it"-Duke
    "Just because a girl sleeps with her brother doesn't mean she's easy..."-Blues

  10. #50
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    I will say that a slicked up 92D would be far more agreeable to me than that gun vomit Sig put out with the DAK.

    DB and I had an exchange last week via text message that began with me complimenting him on his emphasis on assessment in training. This is something I've harped on for years, being part of my "software rather than hardware solutions" philosophy. In my opinion, too much emphasis has been placed on speed in modern training. (we won't even get into hardware, that's a whole other discussion) Draw faster, shoot faster, reload faster, faster, faster, faster..... This comes from two places, IMHO: trainers with experience in either competition or military application. I've done both, so I'm not saying either context is bad. However, the first is competing for trophies, coins, or some kind of participation medal where misses can be made up for with increased speed. The second works in any environment where a certain amount of collateral damage is acceptable. None of that applies in LE or civilian contexts. I've used a gun three times in my life for its intended purpose, raw speed never was a deciding factor in any of those. Keeping my head in the game beforehand and recognizing when things were about to go sideways definitely was. It's entirely possible to outshoot your ability to assess, we see that time after time in current LE shootings. Somewhere along the way, "Shoot until the target is neutralized." became, "Hose it until the gun runs dry. Did you really need to shoot Little Ray Ray fifteen times? Maybe you did, if so rock on. But how did you know? Where was your assessment? You were pulling the trigger as fast as you could as soon as you cleared the holster and didn't stop until you had to reload. It looked like you were trying to show Taran Butler your precious. What you didn't look like was a trained professional. We used to teach assessment in shooting but that seems to have fallen out of favor and replaced with the School of John Wick. Everyone wants to train with the DeltaDEVGRURanger with the thundering neck beard and sleeve tatts, or the Grand Pooba Master of some shooting sport or another, who hands out coins and hats to a few worthy of a selfie, at the end of class. No one wants to train with the fat old retired cop who spent decades policing urban America and had to make the very assessments we're talking about. Most of those guys are throwing up their hands in frustration and giving up on training, which is a big loss to everyone.

    In the context of an armed citizen it's not just your loved ones you should be concerned over. In all likelyhood, there'll be someone downrage. Whether you know them or not doesn't matter, you're accountable for every shot you fire and you have no big government machine backing you up. The main reason why I've gravitated towards DA/SA guns is the safety buffer that initial DA pull provides against me screwing the pooch and everyone screws the pooch. I've done it for decades at a serious level and I freely admit I've had a few of those moments over the years. My lightbulb moment came back in the bronze age when I watched a Navy SEAL blow two of his own toes off with a shotgun. If a switched on pipehitter can do that what about the rest of us? I still stuck with the 1911 for decades after, but I started taking things a bit more seriously after that. Now that I'm getting old and creaky I like the thought of a little extra preventative help. I competed in bullseye competition for years, both with pistol and rifle and I always nagged on accuracy when I was on the job. Remember Coopers triad: Accuracy, Power, Speed, in that order. Power and speed should really be lower cased, because accuracy is the only thing that really matters. If you can shoot, they'll all work.

    Anything that gives you even a split second to assess and evaluate is a good thing, it can make all the difference. If it's a piece of hardware like a TDA or a DAO trigger than all the better.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

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