A discussion on Kimber quality

[NickA]

No kidding. While I tend to avoid gun magazines like the plague, I can't help but notice how often those ads run in a magazine that is praising a Kimber on the same page or within a few pages, with a highly subjective, unquantified opinion. Coincidence? Maybe.

J.Ja

I was thinking the same thing. Makes you wonder what would happen if they put some of that massive advertising budget back into QC or R&D. I'm always wary of any company that's trying that hard to sell me something.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[ToddG]

The amount of money spent on advertising, while significant, is not nearly adequate to upgrade the QC at a company that produces as many guns per year as Kimber.

Kimber started out making extremely well put together 1911s with a lot of bells & whistles which were still "custom" parts compared to their competitors. They sold the guns at an aggressive price. Almost overnight, every 1911-loving gun writer on Earth was singing the praises of the new 1911 revolution brought about by Kimbers.

Over time, Kimber's business approach changed. Their prices rose quickly. Their quality dropped. They went into SKU overload, offering eleventy zillion configurations. But the same gun writers who'd been so impressed with them a decade ago continued to give them a pass, based mostly on the fact that few of those gunwriters shoot many rounds through test guns... and the few who do actually shoot a lot tend to be the same gunwriters whose names are not associated with articles fawning over the latest Kimber contraption.

In a lot of ways, it's similar to the Glock gen4-9mm issue. Kimber has all sorts of apologists, most of whom (a) formed their opinion with the original generation of guns that ran well, (b) don't actually shoot enough to have valid data on reliability in the same context as most pistol-forum members, (c) lucked out with a Kimber that runs well and refuse to acknowledge it was more about luck than quality, or some combination thereof.

[YVK]

I have owned a Kimber with an external extractor. It also had a mis-timed Schwartz safety, and a chamber seemingly sized for one caliber down. Enough said?

[Gary1911A1]

The amount of money spent on advertising, while significant, is not nearly adequate to upgrade the QC at a company that produces as many guns per year as Kimber.

Kimber started out making extremely well put together 1911s with a lot of bells & whistles which were still "custom" parts compared to their competitors. They sold the guns at an aggressive price. Almost overnight, every 1911-loving gun writer on Earth was singing the mpraises of the new 1911 revolution brought about by Kimbers.

Over time, Kimber's business approach changed. Their prices rose quickly. Their quality dropped. They went into SKU overload, offering eleventy zillion configurations. But the same gun writers who'd been so impressed with them a decade ago continued to give them a pass, based mostly on the fact that few of those gunwriters shoot many rounds through test guns... and the few who do actually shoot a lot tend to be the same gunwriters whose names are not associated with articles fawning over the latest Kimber contraption.

In a lot of ways, it's similar to the Glock gen4-9mm issue. Kimber has all sorts of apologists, most of whom (a) formed their opinion with the original generation of guns that ran well, (b) don't actually shoot enough to have valid data on reliability in the same context as most pistol-forum members, (c) lucked out with a Kimber that runs well and refuse to acknowledge it was more about luck than quality, or some combination thereof.

I am so glad you aren't running a Kimber in 9MM in your endurance test for the same reasons.

[jumpthestack]

Relevant link:
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/...r-warrior.html

[Wes Peart]

I worked at a large Kimber dealer for almost 2 years.

Saw some pretty pathetic excuses for craftsmanship there. I'm talking NIB guns that you literally couldn't shoot because they wouldn't feed the first round of ball ammo off the magazine. That's bad. Terrible triggers... because the FCG was filled with metal shavings. Burred extractors with edges you could shave with. Extractors with way too much or non existent tension. My personal favorite was a Custom Covert that shot bursts from the factory, at least it would feed more than a few rounds in succession.

The worst offenders were the 3'' guns followed by commanders. I grabbed one of their aluminum framed officers guns out of the back one day to put in the display case, hand cycled the slide back and forth a few times- the slide locked up about 1/4'' out of battery. No amount of pushing or scientific application of a rubber mallet could get it to move. Sent it back to Kimber, they just sent us a new one and never did say what was wrong with it. After that I did a thorough function check on every gun that came out of the back before it went in the case.

Basic full sized steel framed guns like the Custom II and TLE/RL were the "best", didn't have many problems with them.

[Kyle Reese]

I read about a SWAT LEO that put over 140,000 rounds through a kimber with the exterior extractor that is supposed to be less desirable.When it was at kimber they wanted to study it a while since it had so many documented rounds though it.MIM parts can be good as other parts.If someone wants a really good trigger they can get a jig,stones and a quality sear and stone it to perfection if they take their time.If the trigger hooks are at 90 degrees and polished and the sear matches and dicsco polished along with polished trigger bow and channel the trigger can be 5 pounds but feel like 3 pounds.Colt sear springs are only 4 bucks and be set to whatever pull you feel comfy with.Working on a 1911 is pretty easy after a little practice.There shouldn't be any gritty feel or creep in a 2000 dollar 1911 but you can make it perfect real easy with all the parts and tools that are available.

I have serious doubts that anyone has fired that many rounds thru a Kimber. Mine barely lasted 1000 rounds before the front sight sheared off during a course of fire.

[vcdgrips]

TLG is spot on re the early Series I, pre external extractor, pre Series II Schwartz Safetied guns were excellent.
Near match accurate barrels that were well fitted, throated and polished from the factory. Dovetailed front and rear sights you could see, lowered ejection port, Chip McCormick composite trigger, fitted beavertail grip safety, slightly extended frame safety and mag release with a trigger pull of less than 5 pounds that had a bit of take up and then a clean break. All in their entry level pistol at about 600.00 all day long. Circa 1997, it would have been a bargain at nearly 2x the price by the time you bought a Springfield or a Colt as a base gun and had someone who knew what they were doing do the work. While I am not a fan of FLGRs, Kimber used a well made one piece unit that required no special tool to take the gun down.

When there was a problem, it was handled promptly and well. If Kimber had not gone off the deep end they would have killed Colt and all but killed Springfield.

I have two Series I guns and a number of Glocks. While I need nothing, I never fail to look for Gen 1 Glocks and Series I Kimbers everytime I go into a gun store. I could always "use" another.

YMMV,

David

[BLR]

Hang on. I'm not saying they are the cat's rear end. If they were, I'd own dozens. I own only 1 (a 10mm Custom II).

I'm merely stating the post I quoted lacks a warm fuzzy feeling from me.

Fact of the matter is Kimber raised the bar significantly for quality and performance expectations in the 1911 world. You really can't argue that. They dented Colt and SA badly. You can't really argue that. Both had to raise their standards to get competitive again. I give them credit for that.

Have they screwed up? Oh yeah. But the post I responded to implies (states?) you can't get a Kimber to run w/o changing out all the Kimber parts. I call BS. That is what I take exception to. The odds that they all needed a visit to NY is, well, low.

That said, I'll concede to Tamara on this. IIRC, she said she was the sales manager for a Kimber line (or something to that effect). I'd assume she's seen many more than I ever will, or care to for that matter.

[BLR]

McDonald's sells lots of hamburgers.

I doubt many would argue they're producing the best burgers around.

I doubt they would too. However, I didn't state that they were the best.

Serviceable and "best" have different connotations.

There is a reason the Big Mac costs whatever it does, and a 21 Club burger costs $30+.