Win 70 or R 700 .223 for a beginner “precision” rifle?

[awp_101]

Or you could buy a new Rem700 bolt/receiver with no barrel attached. You can buy them as single-shot only so you get the full stiffness in the receiver.

There are so many options these days for starting with a receiver and bolting stuff to it.

Yeah, that starts with PR #2. I keep starting down that rabbit trail unintentionally and before I realize it project creep is happening and I'm blowing my budget for this whole thing on just the receiver.

And Timney makes a trigger for standard-size Howas. Don't know if it works in Minis.

What I'm finding says no. It appears they physically fit the action but putting the action back in the stock or getting it to work right if it does go back without altering the stock are another story.

strongly consider making the chamber look like a Ackley Improved instead of a Wylde. AR's are limited to 55 kPSI, bolt guns are not. If you form your brass into 223 AI you can get the performance gain of the extra capacity AND ensure that you wont inadvertently have a high pressure round migrate into a AR.....

That is an excellent idea! .223AI was briefly discussed in another thread and I was sort of looking for a reason to go that way.

[Wise_A]

I was under the understanding that Savage had discontinued the 6BR chambering but I see that Buds and Grab a Gun have some in stock for $1440. From what I have read, those are not repeaters so you have to single load each round, typical of benchrest.

There are so many options these days for starting with a receiver and bolting stuff to it. Savage works well but since they have several different versions of their receiver, you have to be careful which one you choose so you can find a stock that fits it.

Remington 700 pattern receivers are very popular with the PRS crowd. There are many options from Defiance, Origin, Impact, etc that give you a ready to go receiver that you can get prefit barrels or do a Remage style nut. Tons of stock and trigger options out there.

I believe that factory-fresh Savages all have the same bolt spacing--even my snowflake 12 action fits into any modern Savage SA stock. Where you run into trouble is when you buy a used one. I'm unsurprised that they're restricting 6BR to their single-shots, as it's an economical way to avoid running into feeding issues. All that said--I don't hate my Savage, I really rather enjoy the gun and it shoots great, but don't buy a Savage. I really wish I had just sacked up and screwed together my own for the 6.5CM.

Said rifle I'm mulling for that cartridge--damn it sounds like a lot of fun--will be a custom action. Definitely integral lug, probably integral rail, everything else I'm still exploring. But the Impact Precision 737 sounds real sexy.

I’ll be honest, Savage appeals to my cheap ass frugal nature and my love of tinkering. Not super cool or sexy but add in a good barrel, stock and single shot follower and I should be good to go. Plus I think the trigger can be upgraded which is something I haven’t seen for the Howas. Resale value isn’t a huge concern because if/when it gets replaced it’ll go to one of the boys or a grandkid.

The way I look at it, if you buy a Savage, you're buying a really great factory barrel and a very good trigger (presuming you can get over the AccuTrigger blade).

That is an excellent idea! .223AI was briefly discussed in another thread and I was sort of looking for a reason to go that way.

Devil's advocate, if you're shooting under 300 yards you really don't need the extra 150-ish fps, and using an AI means you can't shoot F-T/R with that rifle unless you get a new barrel. Just get a .223 for now, and if you want to rebarrel later, either get a Wylde or have a barrel reamed with a PT+G ISSF reamer for 90-grain Bergers. Which would also be dumb as hell because you're shooting a .223 for its practicality and then throwing 90-grain Bergers down the tube. So if you want more dakka, get a rifle in one of the dumbass cartridges I keep looking at.

Counterpoint, you don't need anything more than a .224-bore at your distance, so there's really no downside to having an AI, and it's cool.

RE: 6CM barrel life, hell, most people can't kill a barrel if they try, so it's as good an excuse as any.

[Jim Watson]

Which would also be dumb as hell because you're shooting a .223 for its practicality and then throwing 90-grain Bergers down the tube. So if you want more dakka, get a rifle in one of the dumbass cartridges I keep looking at.

Counterpoint, you don't need anything more than a .224-bore at your distance, so there's really no downside to having an AI, and it's cool.

Having gone the route to a 6.5 twist .223 for 90 gr VLDs in F-T/R, I can somewhat agree. It is not a 1000 yard rifle but it holds up very well out to 600. Not remotely necessary for 200. The Internet is hung up on fast twist and heavy bullets even when not needed.

There is no upside to a .223 AI for anything that I can see. I got over Kewl Factor some time ago.

Picking .223 for cheap ammo and surplus brass is false economy for a target rifle. A few hundred commercial cases of the same lot number, lightly sized, will probably wear out a barrel. And I do not shoot surplus or econoball in my target rifles, because you CAN wear out a barrel, at least to the point of perceptibly larger groups with the good stuff.

[Wise_A]

What I'm saying in terms of economy is that I think there's a difference between building a gun around 90-grain, $0.50/round Bergers, versus $0.20/round 60-grain Sierra TMKs. Outside of competition, by the time you're pitching heavy, top-notch bullets, why not just spend a little more on powder and get a better-suited cartridge?

[Skinner Precision, LLC]

What I'm saying in terms of economy is that I think there's a difference between building a gun around 90-grain, $0.50/round Bergers, versus $0.20/round 60-grain Sierra TMKs. Outside of competition, by the time you're pitching heavy, top-notch bullets, why not just spend a little more on powder and get a better-suited cartridge?

1. Berger isn't the only high BC bullet maker, 88 gr EDL-M's (pre current stupidity) were a bargain for practice/ unimportant match ammo, same with Sierra and Nosler "Seconds" when available 2.My personal fast twist .224 bore rifles shoot 52 and 53 gr SMK's great up close (and 69SMK's at 300), if I so choose. A slow twist rifle may be fun to lob rounds in a P=dog town but will never be as useful at relatively longer ranges...plenty of people choose .224 bores as a "trainer" practice centerfire that mimics their real deal match rifle (PRS and NRA High-power) because for the same bc, the bullet will be cheaper, and you save significantly on both powder and barrel life..... 224 Valkyrie was starting to take off as a PRS boltgun practice round before the current foolishness simply because of the cost of ammo for those who wanted to practice relatively high volumes (thinking in terms of cases / month consumption) instead of spending time at the reloading bench (much like how 9mm became the default for those choosing to compete with pistols but stick with factory ammo for practice)....

[awp_101]

Maybe this entire twist rate thing is a marketing gimmick by bullet manufacturers to sell more bullets. Seriously, I don't have any experience with it, I'm just parroting what I read.

I have a lot more "reading time" than actual experience with twist rate issues but the one time I know I can pin a rifle problem on twist rate/bullet weight incompatibility was with an Interarms Mark X (older CZ made mini-Mauser) .223. When I bought it all the .223 I had on hand was 62gr and it would barely hold 8" at 25 yards. After swapping the scope, checking the mounts, etc I was about to chalk it up to getting stuck with someone else's problem child.

Before taking it back to the shop I picked up some 55gr and made another range trip. The groups tightened considerably (1-2" at 25 yards) and probably would have improved even more except for the loose nut behind the trigger. But since I am a graduate of the Jake Blues University of Excuses when it comes to my shooting, all I can say is...

[Wise_A]

1. Berger isn't the only high BC bullet maker, 88 gr EDL-M's (pre current stupidity) were a bargain for practice/ unimportant match ammo, same with Sierra and Nosler "Seconds" when available 2.My personal fast twist .224 bore rifles shoot 52 and 53 gr SMK's great up close (and 69SMK's at 300), if I so choose. A slow twist rifle may be fun to lob rounds in a P=dog town but will never be as useful at relatively longer ranges...plenty of people choose .224 bores as a "trainer" practice centerfire that mimics their real deal match rifle (PRS and NRA High-power) because for the same bc, the bullet will be cheaper, and you save significantly on both powder and barrel life..... 224 Valkyrie was starting to take off as a PRS boltgun practice round before the current foolishness simply because of the cost of ammo for those who wanted to practice relatively high volumes (thinking in terms of cases / month consumption) instead of spending time at the reloading bench (much like how 9mm became the default for those choosing to compete with pistols but stick with factory ammo for practice)....

Yeah--if you flip back I'm against the 1:12" factory offerings. Nor am I asking "why would anyone get a .223". What I'm saying is that if you're not going to have a long-term use for the .223, and your shooting isn't limited by money...well, maybe don't consider .223 as a necessary starting point. Or if you need to dip your toes, get a Ruger American Predator or some cheap Savage and hang a Nightforce on top.

[awp_101]

Picked this up today:


Rem 700 .223 with a 20" Krieger barrel, H-S stock and what feels like a replacement or massaged trigger. Barrel passes the dollar bill free float test all the way to the receiver. It's supposed to have been touched by a noted precision 'smith, hopefully I can contact him Monday and see if he has any particulars such as twist, trigger, etc.

[SecondsCount]

Picked this up today:


Rem 700 .223 with a 20" Krieger barrel, H-S stock and what feels like a replacement or massaged trigger. Barrel passes the dollar bill free float test all the way to the receiver. It's supposed to have been touched by a noted precision 'smith, hopefully I can contact him Monday and see if he has any particulars such as twist, trigger, etc.

That's a nice looking rig

[cornstalker]

Picked this up today:


Rem 700 .223 with a 20" Krieger barrel, H-S stock and what feels like a replacement or massaged trigger. Barrel passes the dollar bill free float test all the way to the receiver. It's supposed to have been touched by a noted precision 'smith, hopefully I can contact him Monday and see if he has any particulars such as twist, trigger, etc.

Very nice! That thing is going to be loads of fun.