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Thread: Win 70 or R 700 .223 for a beginner “precision” rifle?

  1. #1
    3 YARD SNIPER awp_101's Avatar
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    Win 70 or R 700 .223 for a beginner “precision” rifle?

    I’m looking at 2 rifles to get my feet wet in the precision rifle world. This will be just me and targets at 100 and 200 yards. Not BR or PRS, not even the monthly BR match my club puts on unless I just happen to be there and I’m feeling froggy. My immediate goal to work towards is 1 MOA at 100 and 200 yards.

    The one I’m most interested in is a lightly used late model Model 70 Varmint Heavy Barrel (2002-2006 production of I’m understanding the sn sequence correctly). The second is a LNIB late production R700 Varmint. Both have 26” tubes and H-S style plastic stocks.

    I know the 700 has tons more aftermarket support across the board and in this case is ~$200 cheaper. What’s driving me towards the Winchester is it’s supposed to have a 9 twist as opposed to the 12 of the Remington. All of my shooting is going to be from the bench at paper or steel out to 200. The chances of getting out farther are very slim and almost none.

    I know the 12 is probably limited to 55gr and under which means wind calls are going to be muy importante. What I’d like to know is, as an infrequent rifle shooter am I severely handicapping myself by going with the 12 twist and lighter bullets at the ranges I have access to?

    Thanks!
    Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain

    All generalizations are incorrect, including this one.

  2. #2
    HAS ELECTROLYTES LittleLebowski's Avatar
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    If you’re dead certain you’re not gonna get the upgrade bug, M70. They’re great guns.
    #RESIST

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    The one I’m most interested in is a lightly used late model Model 70 Varmint Heavy Barrel (2002-2006 production of I’m understanding the sn sequence correctly). The second is a LNIB late production R700 Varmint. Both have 26” tubes and H-S style plastic stocks.
    Not sure what your budget is, but I'd take a long, hard look at a Tikka T3x.


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  4. #4
    Brass Rat Borderland's Avatar
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    I don't know those two rifles so I'll stick to twist rates.

    I think the 1/12 twist barrel has some disadvantages because the best accuracy will be with 45 grn bullets. 1/9 is the sweet spot for cheap ammo using 55-62 grn bullets.

    There isn't anything wrong with 1/12 if all you want to do is punch paper at 200 yds. but I think you're kind a locking yourself in with 1/12 regarding ammo.

    Edit

    I feel the same way about 1/7 which a lot of AR's come with these days.
    Last edited by Borderland; 03-12-2021 at 10:57 AM.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  5. #5
    Flat-out don't buy that Remington. Speaking from experience, the 1:12 twist is not worth it. If you decide later that you want a more customized or upgraded rifle, you'll also probably be in the market for a new cartridge, have a real preference for barrel, and possibly be interested in a custom action. Either way, Remington 700 actions with .308 bolt faces are thick on the ground.

    I would second the recommendation on the Tikka. IIRC, all the Tikka T3Xs in .223 come with a more versatile 1:8" twist, which should be good for everything from 55-grain bulk ammo to 62-66-grain match. The real star of the show, however, is the buttery-smooth Tikka action. I also think you're a lot more likely to draw a real shooter with Tikka than with Remington.

    I'll put it this way: I own both a Remington 700 Varmint in .223, and a Savage 12 LRP in 6.5CM, and I am recommending the Tikka to you.

  6. #6
    3 YARD SNIPER awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    If you’re dead certain you’re not gonna get the upgrade bug, M70. They’re great guns.
    I've actually thought about that because I know I have minimal resistance to the upgrade fairy. When I'm ready to upgrade the original rifle it will be time for a Nucleus 2.0 or Stiller. If I'm going to throw away everything but the action screws when rebuilding or upgrading the first rifle, I might as well start fresh so the lack of options for the M70 doesn't bother me as much as it normally would.

    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    Not sure what your budget is, but I'd take a long, hard look at a Tikka T3x.
    I'm a Tikka fan but .223s have been hard to track down the past couple of months unless I want to get into a bidding war, which I don't. If this was 18 months ago this would probably be a "look at this new Tikka I just got!" thread.
    Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain

    All generalizations are incorrect, including this one.

  7. #7
    I would get the M70 based on the twist alone. If you handload, I would start with 69 grain Sierra Matchkings.

    Good job catching the slow twist in the Remington.

  8. #8
    There are a lot of good quality match-grade bullets in the 52-55 grain range. Maybe not the end of the world to go with Remington if you like the rifle better. I would tend to err on the side of versatility. You never know when you are going to end up with a finicky barrel, so I feel the more bullet options the better. In my opinion, the option to dabble in the 68-70 grain range would be nice to have.

  9. #9
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    I would buy the M70 because I will like the action better, and would find the 1:9 rate more useful and versatile, if I were inclined to get a 26” .223 precision rifle.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter SecondsCount's Avatar
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    At 100-200 yards, it isn't going to make much difference. If you decide to shoot further out, go with the 1:9 with 69 grain bullets or the 70 RDF.

    I second the Tikka suggestion. 1:8 will stabilize the longer high BC bullets like a 77 TMK, 75 ELD, and you can get to 1000 with those.
    -Seconds Count. Misses Don't-

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