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Thread: AR15 Buttstock Durability Discussion

  1. #11
    Site Supporter dogcaller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    For those up of us that were not around ARs before, during and after the AWB, it’s easy to forget the impact that “bans” have had on the collective wants of the firearms market. One related side note that exemplifies that is that many gun shops couldn’t give away HK91s prior to them being banned, and after a ban they became highly prized.

    Similar are things like flash hiders, bayonet lugs, and collapsible stocks. Prior to the ban nobody really gave them much thought. Once they were banned, people started paying $500 for “preban” stripped lowers just so they could own these evenly features. The AWB pretty much created the current AR market (along with the post-9/11 global war on terror).

    All of that to say, I eventually found that collapsible stocks were pretty unnecessary for me. Once I started shooting carbines a little more bladed and a little less squared up, I was running the stock out a little further. One day I took all my ARs out, put the stocks at the length where I was most comfortable shooting them, and measured them. Guess what length they came to? Yep, exactly the length of an A1 AR stock. That’s why, when I did my “year of irons” I chose a BCM Dissipator upper with Magpul rifle length hand guard and and A1 length fixed stock.

    Today my carbines wear collapsible for a variety of reasons (chief among those reasons is, no real motivation to start fiddle-fucking with ARs again), but if I were starting from scratch I’d likely to A1. Among other things, I find the rifle#length buffer system to be the most forgiving, but secondarily would be that I believe the A1 with rifle buffer to be the most durable as well.
    Not trying to dissuade the OP, but I have come to the same conclusion as rob_s. All but one of mine sport an A1 stock. My PCC has a collapsible Magpul, mostly because I thought it looked cool when I was putting it together many years ago. I'm also not implying that you or anyone else choose them for the looks. Just my experience. I also don't use body armor or use carbines inside vehicles, so the adjustability of the stock is less important than the LOP and foolproof nature of the A1. I do appreciate that the A1 is hella sturdy and I never worry about the RE getting torqued.

  2. #12
    dogcaller and rob_s,

    Your thoughts/experience is what landed me to buying the magpul fixed MOE stock which is a modern day A1.

    I lack the depth of AR experience you both have but I’ve fired around 20k rounds though ARs over the last 20 years, between my own practice and then 3 to 4 carbine classes. At the time I was shooting all NTCH in a squared off stance.

    So I did some reading of the internets and it seems like most people don’t adjust the length if their collapsible stock except for storage and honestly, what does that gain us really, 2 inches? If we want storage compactness we go with a LAW folder.

    I figured let me try out this fixed magpul stock to keep things simpler, one less thing to break. At the risk of upsetting some, I even removed the buffer retaining pin and spring temporarily for testing purposes. I’ve seen it during a class pop out of a students gun and jam the action. And I read a few anecdotal thoughts mirroring this, and that it’s an unnecessary part as long as you’re willing to deal with the buffer and buffer spring not being captive when you take the upper off.

    I’m a lowly civilian and I don’t train with my carbines as much as I’d like to be super capable with them. I focus more on handgun since I carry one daily. I figure the fewest parts that can break or get jammed up the better.

    But like I said I am new to the bladed stance and I’m not up to speed on modern day accessories or training methodology since my most recent carbine class was 10 years ago. So I’m not sure if this idea of mine is stupid but you two seem to support it. But maybe not the removing the buffer retaining pin maybe that’s extreme.

  3. #13
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    Not really a “durability” issue but the collapsing stocks work well if you’re letting smaller statured persons shoot your rifle. My wife uses a different setting than I do and mine changes depending on how much clothing I wear. We can hunt with AR shaped rifles here so mine goes afield in nasty weather.

    On the other hand, upon retirement I grew a beard and mustache (facial hair and an attraction to redheads is apparently genetic on my mom’s side). The collapsible stocks are prone to plucking my mustache hairs which can be a tad distracting where fixed stocks don’t.

    I have two rifles with Magpul’s MOE Rifle stock, they’re comfortable and have a storage space big enough for a small cleaning kit and extra parts like a spare buffer retaining plunger and spring.

  4. #14
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    My favorite AR wears a fixed A1 length stock.


    That’s a ‘97 in-ban MT6530, brown mount installed by Ted Yost, Jewell trigger, and Ace stock. And tens of thousands of rounds down the pipe.
    Ignore Alien Orders

  5. #15
    Site Supporter dogcaller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick R View Post
    Not really a “durability” issue but the collapsing stocks work well if you’re letting smaller statured persons shoot your rifle. My wife uses a different setting than I do and mine changes depending on how much clothing I wear. We can hunt with AR shaped rifles here so mine goes afield in nasty weather.

    On the other hand, upon retirement I grew a beard and mustache (facial hair and an attraction to redheads is apparently genetic on my mom’s side). The collapsible stocks are prone to plucking my mustache hairs which can be a tad distracting where fixed stocks don’t.

    I have two rifles with Magpul’s MOE Rifle stock, they’re comfortable and have a storage space big enough for a small cleaning kit and extra parts like a spare buffer retaining plunger and spring.
    Ha! Your post actually reminded me that the actual reason I went with the collapsible on my PCC was the same as yours. Thinking it would be easy to adjust for the kids, and expecting a PCC would be a good fit for them. Turns out that 9mm blowback recoils about as much as a gas .223, so it didn't make much difference with the kids, but at least it (used to be) a bit cheaper.
    Last edited by dogcaller; 03-13-2021 at 02:56 PM.

  6. #16
    Site Supporter dogcaller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD View Post
    My favorite AR wears a fixed A1 length stock.


    That’s a ‘97 in-ban MT6530, brown mount installed by Ted Yost, Jewell trigger, and Ace stock. And tens of thousands of rounds down the pipe.
    That's a sweet, classic carbine! Funny, because that very stock is the one that I always wanted to get. A1s were always dirt cheap and the same length, but didn't seem nearly as cool.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    For those up of us that were not around ARs before, during and after the AWB, it’s easy to forget the impact that “bans” have had on the collective wants of the firearms market. One related side note that exemplifies that is that many gun shops couldn’t give away HK91s prior to them being banned, and after a ban they became highly prized.

    Similar are things like flash hiders, bayonet lugs, and collapsible stocks. Prior to the ban nobody really gave them much thought. Once they were banned, people started paying $500 for “preban” stripped lowers just so they could own these evenly features. The AWB pretty much created the current AR market (along with the post-9/11 global war on terror).

    All of that to say, I eventually found that collapsible stocks were pretty unnecessary for me. Once I started shooting carbines a little more bladed and a little less squared up, I was running the stock out a little further. One day I took all my ARs out, put the stocks at the length where I was most comfortable shooting them, and measured them. Guess what length they came to? Yep, exactly the length of an A1 AR stock. That’s why, when I did my “year of irons” I chose a BCM Dissipator upper with Magpul rifle length hand guard and and A1 length fixed stock.

    Today my carbines wear collapsible for a variety of reasons (chief among those reasons is, no real motivation to start fiddle-fucking with ARs again), but if I were starting from scratch I’d likely to A1. Among other things, I find the rifle#length buffer system to be the most forgiving, but secondarily would be that I believe the A1 with rifle buffer to be the most durable as well.
    I've been shooting AR's since 1984 and got my first one in 1988. This is another your use is not everyone's use situation.

    While I prefer A1 length for fair weather range use and never bought into the shooting the stock collapsed fad, there are real world uses for adjustable stocks. Not everything is done in a T shirt on the square range.

    Wearing armor, wearing cold weather gear, use inside vehicles, fitting the gun to people of different sizes etc

    While some collapsible stock carbines had been in limited use since Vietnam, the M4 was officially adopted by the conventional military in 1994.... the same year as the AWB so it is very much a chicken / egg situation.

    There was also a certain amount of Fudd-ism that collapsible stocks were the devil because if you had to give up your M14 for a "poodle shooter" you needed a fixed stock to finish them off with the buttstock due to the ineffectiveness of 5.56.

    And of course the Vltor A5 system exists, which is basically a collapsible receiver extension mimicking the function of a rifle length extension. .
    Last edited by HCM; 03-13-2021 at 04:42 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    They give M4s to Marines who could break an anvil with a rock...and they don't seem to be able to break the receiver extension and standard M4A1 collapsible stock.

    If you can break one, I'd be thoroughly impressed.
    It has been done, but IME always by doing something you shouldn't.

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  9. #19
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Are we talking about shooting or using it as a blunt weapon?
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  10. #20
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    While I prefer A1 length for fair weather range use and never bought into the shooting the stock collapsed fad, there are real world uses for adjustable stocks. Not everything is done in a T shirt on the square range.

    Wearing armor, wearing cold weather gear, use inside vehicles, fitting the gun to people of different sizes etc
    You are correct. I’m not doing any of that shit. If people are (ACTUALLY are, not pretending to be) doing that stuff then you are correct that collapsible stocks are helpful.

    I’m a construction executive living in SE Florida. I bet my needs and uses are more in line with the majority of users here.

    There’s nothing *wrong* with a collapsible stock, it’s just that most non-professional users would be as well, if not better, served with an A1.
    Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.

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