training:practice:ability

[rob_s]

I'm still figuring out how this will work itself out, so please bear with me to start.

I'm interested in ideals we set for ourselves, and the limits of reality, relative to ability. Ignoring the nature ("natural talent") vs. nurture ("work ethic") argument for a moment...

What is the ratio you think is required to achieve a known ranking as measure of ability? In other words, how many classes per year, matches per month, practice sessions per week, etc. do you think is required to become a USPSA or IDPA Master? What about a USPSA "C"? and what is the output required to initially achieve that level vs. maintaining it once achieved? If you have to go to the range and practice two days a week to achieve Master, can you back off and go instead twice a month to maintain that? Does the focus shift from static range training to attending more matches?

I'm thinking about this in terms of physical fitness where there are limits to how big/strong/fast you are going to get and that is largely limited by (pharmacology excluded) time and effort invested. Does the same thing apply to shooting? Do we set unrealistic goals or fail to understand the real commitment that is necessary to achieve certain goals?

The reason I'm asking all of this is that I am interested in the limits that the realities of life place on our time, and what we can realistically hope to achieve within those limits. In other words, there is a balance point wherein you aren't going to continue to improve given X amount of money & time invested. It is unlikely that someone is going to become a Master class shooter if they shoot one match ever few months and maybe get to the range once a month for two rounds of Dot Torture. But, then, what classification CAN that person hope to achieve?

I think it was Basham, or maybe McNamara, or some other NLP-type that said goals have to be realistic and achievable, but just out of your current reach (or words to that effect), so how do we ensure that the goals we set meet with the resources we have available?

Hope this makes sense. I'll try to clarify as (if?) the thread develops.

[ToddG]

I think you're trying to quantify something that isn't quantifiable. There is no simple equation that says "2k per year = Sharpshooter; 10k per year = Master." The number of variables in terms of what/how someone practices, how well they retain it, etc. is just huge.

If someone's shooting goals are wrapped around trying to achieve a certain status within a game, but his practice routine isn't well thought out in terms of that game, he won't achieve as much (or as fast) as the guy who has a laser focus on becoming the next World Supermaster.

[nwhpfan]

The reigning USPSA Production Champion (Ben Stoeger) says it took him 3k rounds to become a IDPA Master and 2k more rounds to be a USPSA Grand Master and he had never take a class from anybody before that. I would surmise from that - it was what and how he practiced vs. just "shooting". Meaningful practice and training in the furtherence of some measurable level of skill can be a hard thing to accomplish. I have had a difficult time understanding "how" to practice in the past; and I would consider myself "on my way" to better, but not there yet... I learn what to practice by competing and watching those better than me; seeing what they do better, faster, gooder etc. I look at stage results and see who beat and me and why. For example I know I need to be better at transitioning from one target to the next and "pressing" a shot vs. hammeriing it. I tend to (try) move quick and dynamic and have a hard time not letting the power associated with the movement stay away from how I pull the trigger. I know I need to work on catchng the re-set in recoil and prep the next shot as my sights settle-I shoot too many Alpha Charlie instead of 2 Alpha; I know I need to practice shooting while moving. I know I need to relax my head and stand more straight up and ride the recoil instead of trying to choke it out. I get 90% of my drills from www.pistol-training.com My favorite of late is http://pistol-training.com/drills/press-six and over the last few sesssions I've increased the time and distance.... I think it's the same you've been hearing since youth sports...perfect practice makes perfect...

[jetfire]

Conversely, the reigning Steel Challenge Champion shoots something like 50,000 rounds a year.

[rob_s]

I think you're trying to quantify something that isn't quantifiable. There is no simple equation that says "2k per year = Sharpshooter; 10k per year = Master." The number of variables in terms of what/how someone practices, how well they retain it, etc. is just huge.

If someone's shooting goals are wrapped around trying to achieve a certain status within a game, but his practice routine isn't well thought out in terms of that game, he won't achieve as much (or as fast) as the guy who has a laser focus on becoming the next World Supermaster.

I'm not looking so much for equations as I am looking for a general idea. Nor am I intending game status as anything more than a quantifiable measure, and I understand that some prefer to avoid measure at all costs.

[ToddG]

I'm not looking so much for equations as I am looking for a general idea. Nor am I intending game status as anything more than a quantifiable measure, and I understand that some prefer to avoid measure at all costs.

Got it. I'm all for measuring performance.

Don't know if this really answers what you were getting at, then, but my general advice is to find your starting point (where you are now) and think about what practical milestones you can see between that spot and your long-term goal. Just to use IDPA as an example because it's easy thanks to the standardized Classifier: If you're a Marksman today and you want to make Master, establish the intermediate steps (Sharpshooter, Expert) as milestones and work on achieving them. Obviously you need to delve more deeply than that to figure out exactly what skills need the most work, etc.

[rob_s]

Got it. I'm all for measuring performance.

Don't know if this really answers what you were getting at, then, but my general advice is to find your starting point (where you are now) and think about what practical milestones you can see between that spot and your long-term goal. Just to use IDPA as an example because it's easy thanks to the standardized Classifier: If you're a Marksman today and you want to make Master, establish the intermediate steps (Sharpshooter, Expert) as milestones and work on achieving them. Obviously you need to delve more deeply than that to figure out exactly what skills need the most work, etc.

Yes.

But is, then, shooting once a month enough? Do we build without back-sliding, and if not how far can you go without building again before you negate whatever building you did last time?

For example, if you can do 30 pushups today and keep adding one per week for 6 weeks but then stop for 3 weeks, you probably won't still be able to do 36. Shooting, at least to me, seems to be the same way.

[ToddG]

I don't think this is what you want to hear, but my best answer would have to be "it depends." It depends on the shooter, his regimen, his current skill level, etc.

Muscle mass isn't the same as skill. But I do think the comparison provides for some very good points. For example, if you stopped your pushup practice but at the same time got a job swinging hammers at a quarry, your physical performance might actually rise. If you only go to the range once a month but started dry firing three hours a day, your performance will probably improve compared to the guy who shoots three hours every week (and does nothing else to work on his shooting).

Can someone who only shoots once a month make Master in IDPA? Absolutely. Do most people who make Master in IDPA shoot more than once a month? Also yes.

[Shokr21]

I started competing in USPSA just this year. I've competed in ~7 matches total.

Before this spring I had not really done any serious pistol shooting, just going to the range shooting 100 rounds at a 10" target somewhere between 10-25 yards.

Now I dry fire 3-4 times weekly for a minimum of 20 minutes a time. I go to the range 1-2 a week to work on various drills.

My first 4 classifiers with USPSA were 47% 29% 53% 49%. I think my incoming C card is about right for where I'm at right now. There are 2 A shooters in production at the local match and the rest of us are C's or D's. I finish in the top 5 quite consistently and have recorded 2 2nd place finishes. I've also finished dead last. Typically 12-18 shooters in production per match.

When I shoot IDPA I consistently land in the top 3-5 of 15-20 competitors.

I know if I practiced more, I would get better, but also the competition is a form of practice for me. The more I shoot with others watching the better I've become over time.

I don't know how to quantify that at all. I think I'll rise to the top of C class this summer and possibly breach B. That is my goal for my first season to be knocking on the door of B class.

[BN]

Ignoring the nature ("natural talent") vs. nurture ("work ethic") argument for a moment...

I don't think you can ignore that. Different people will evolve differently according to their ability as well as their dedication. Some shooters will rise to the top with a small amount of effort, while others will not rise even with much more effort.

I feel that someone can reach a certain level of ability and then "coast" for a while slightly below their peak.

I'm coming at this mostly from a competition viewpoint. I've seen a lot of shooters in the 30 years I've been doing this.

To move up the quickest, I would say get good instruction at the very first. Get instruction for what you want to improve. If you want to be a good USPSA shooter, then get instruction from a good USPSA instructor. If you want to be a gunfighter, then use a different instructor. Then practice what you learned.

An average that might benefit most shooters: Get a class. Then shoot 200 quality rounds per week plus dryfire a couple times a week. They will improve if they work at it.