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Thread: Now that I live in a free state, first SBR and suppressor decisions

  1. #1
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    Now that I live in a free state, first SBR and suppressor decisions

    I’m thinking I want to paper an AR lower, and possibly also my Scorpion. A suppressor is also of interest, maybe for the Scorpion.

    Can anyone suggest a good starting point for reading up on the process? What I’ve found is like drinking from a firehose.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  2. #2
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    Many stocking dealers have the whole process down. With the addition of the Silencershop kiosk, the process is almost point and click.

    My local NFA dealer also has a range, so any pending items can be used on site.

    https://www.silencershop.com/storelocator/
    SWYNTS
    Just because it "feels good", doesn't mean it's best.

  3. #3
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    Here's a step by step video by Capitol Armory for doing a form 1 e-file on your lower/Scorpion. You'll need to take some passport style selfies and get the ATF fingerprint form and ink from Amazon. I'd also suggest the cheap card holder to make it easier. For some fingers that are harder to roll for a good print, I found it better to hold the holder in my opposite hand and roll it instead. My form 1s came back in about 2 weeks this past summer. FYI, e-file form 3 and 4 are supposedly coming back soon, so you might want to wait on any suppressors or factory SBRs for a little bit.

    https://youtu.be/colyR1Gjv1I

    Fingerprint cards

    Ink

    Card holder

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    I’m thinking I want to paper an AR lower, and possibly also my Scorpion. A suppressor is also of interest, maybe for the Scorpion.

    Can anyone suggest a good starting point for reading up on the process? What I’ve found is like drinking from a firehose.
    Here are two or three basic tidbits.

    To get the suppressor there will ultimately need to have a Form 4 prepared and sent in to the ATF. The Form 4 is for people buying already manufactured NFA items from companies like Griffin, OSS, Surefire, Dead Air, etc etc. If you were ever wanting to 'manufacture' your own suppressor you can do a Form 1.

    If you are converting an existing gun into an SBR then technically you are the 'manufacturer' so you only need to do a Form 1. Form 1 can be done by yourself at home and you can pay with a credit card. The ATF's website though was built around 1996 so it is very cumbersome. Before you jump in the deep end though you can look for some current instructions on how to fill out a Form 1.

    Also with the Form 1 you will need to supply your finger prints to the ATF after you submit your paperwork. You can buy current finger print cards online very easily. They need to be the most current cards I think. Some people go to the local PD or SO to get printed (ask before showing up) but you CAN finger print yourself if you get a little ink thing. Keep in mind that all the boxes with your demographic info and whatever need to be filled out. I had some prints returned once because I missed a single box. Keep in mind this doesn't really apply to the parts about 'who' is taking your prints (there is a section asking for the info of who is helping you do finger prints) but just to be safe fill out the entire thing on all the cards (you need to sumbit multiple cards).

    For a Form 1 you also need to submit passport photos. Keep in mind that everything else can be done from home on your computer and is submitted electronically.

    If everything goes right it takes about 3 weeks to get approved. After you get approved you need to have the lower/correct part serialized with your information (if you are doing it individually) or as a Trust if doing it under a Trust. It's only two lines of text that need to be engraved (not just anyone can engrave a firearm btw and that can cost anywhere from $40 to whatever people want to charge). The engraving consists of the name of the manufacturer and the city/state such as "XYZ Trust Tinbucktoo, KS". Keep that in mind when setting up the trust. You don't want a Trust name with 24 letters in it because it won't fit on a lot of items. For an AR the lower has to be engraved. For other guns whatever the serialized part is is what will be engraved.

    For the Form 4 I definitely second the use of Silencer Shop. The process is pretty much the same as the Form 1 but they have to do it on paper and they do it all for you. Once your information is on file with Silencer Shop you can literally shop online like you are on ebay and they will fill out the paperwork for you and send you e-copies to do virtual signatures on. If you are doing it under a Trust you will upload the Trust via PDF file to their website and they keep it on file. They keep all data on file for you. The only thing you have to do is keep your photos current. Every 12 months or so you need to send in a fresh photo which can be done electronically of via their app. With the Trust regardless of Form 1 or Form 4 everyone on the Trust has to participate in a purchase (as is described). They will need to give prints, photos, signatures etc.

    Unlike the Form 1 where you have to get prints done each time, Silencer Shop keeps everything on file so it's a one and done thing so long as you are buying from them or using them for the Form 4 process. Getting the account with Silencer Shop set up is the hardest part. You can either go through the process I described above or you can go to their kiosk (a bunch of them all around the US). They are like ATMs that take your fingerprints and other NFA data that they need. If you have 9 people on a Trust it's a lot more cumbersome to do than it would be for two people but it's all possible. There are tons of videos about how to use the kiosk. I think IV8888 had a video a week or two ago about it actually.

    It takes about 9 months to get a silencer out of jail at present.

    ***Please note that this is not including the process to set up a Trust which is IMO more desireable but it has it's own set of 'rules' to be set up depending on which state you live in. Again though a Trust is generally a one and done thing but it just takes time to do seeing how you need notarized signatures and so forth to set it up. But once it's done it's done and generally you don't have to revisit it unless you are adding or taking people off of the Trust. There are numerous places online that offer prepackaged Trusts. Pay them and your Trust shows up 30minutes later, but it still has to be signed and notarized or whatever***

    Again once everything is set up with Silencer Shop you can literally shop like you are on Ebay or something. After you make a purchase (assuming your photos are up to date) they will send a e-copy to anyone needing a signature and you sign and it's done. If they need new photos they will send you an email saying update your photo which can be done via app at home. You just take a passport photo with your phone and you are done.

    Put it this way... I was in an airport in the Far East waiting for a flight during a layover when I got a notification that what I wanted was back in stock. I bought that suppressor and had my signatures done while sitting in the airport halfway around the world. It's that easy (after you get set up with Silencer Shop).
    Last edited by alamo5000; 03-06-2021 at 10:31 AM.

  5. #5
    Form 1= Permission/aka proof of tax paid to manufacture your own NFA item
    Form 4= Proof of tax paid to buy an NFA item from someone else after it's already a completed product.

    One takes 3 weeks and the other takes 9 months.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Form 1= Permission/aka proof of tax paid to manufacture your own NFA item
    Form 4= Proof of tax paid to buy an NFA item from someone else after it's already a completed product.

    One takes 3 weeks and the other takes 9 months.
    My apologies, as a complete newbie on this subject I’m not sure what you are getting at....

    a) which one is which?

    b) does it really mean anything to most people? Wouldn’t I be buying instead of making?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    My apologies, as a complete newbie on this subject I’m not sure what you are getting at....

    a) which one is which?

    b) does it really mean anything to most people? Wouldn’t I be buying instead of making?
    A Form 1 is required to manufacture an NFA item such as if you want to build your own suppressor. Also if you have a rifle or “pistol” that you want to turn into an SBR, you need to complete a Form 1. At that point you are the “manufacturer” of the SBR which is why you use a Form 1.

    A Form 4 is required to purchase an already existing NFA item such as a factory made suppressor from Surefire or a factory SBR like a Colt 6933. At this time, there is no e-file process for the Form 4 which is why they take a lot longer to get approved.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  8. #8
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    Great info - thanks!
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  9. #9
    Add me as another satisfied Silencershop customer. If they carry the suppressor you’re looking for, you’ll probably avoid a bunch of headaches buying through them. Many shops charge pretty high fees to transfer a suppressor you don’t buy directly through them. Silencershop affiliated dealers generally don’t charge a transfer/storage fee on suppressors you buy through Silencershop. The kiosks referenced earlier are also really convenient.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    My apologies, as a complete newbie on this subject I’m not sure what you are getting at....

    a) which one is which?

    b) does it really mean anything to most people? Wouldn’t I be buying instead of making?
    Let me give you a few scenarios to hopefully help clarify. If you buy an AR15 builder's kit and you put it together yourself, or let's even say you bought a complete rifle from someone like Aero Precision and it was configured with a 16" long barrel when it left their factory you buy both of those as a regular old firearm.

    However YOU will be the one that put's a shorter barrel on the gun therefore you are considered the manufacturer.

    The term 'manufacturer' is used very loosely here. It doesn't mean you are milling out your own lower, but rather the one who makes the conversion from a regular barrel length to anything less than 16" or adds a stock onto a gun with a shorter than 16" barrel. Even if you bought a factory gun with a 16" barrel and a separate 11.5" upper, by swapping out the upper you now made yourself 'the manufacturer' per the NFA. Even though with an AR that means popping out two pins and pushing them back in, that is considered 'manufacturing' by the NFA. Same thing if you add a stock to an existing gun such as a pistol formatted CZ Scorpion or anything like it.

    Don't try to make sense of the NFA because it has zero logic to it. It was written when most (or almost all) of modern firearms didn't exist and it was written by people that didn't know a thing about guns. Don't try to make it be logical because it's not.

    If you want to swap the upper from any factory gun to a short barrel, or if you want to add a stock onto a gun, the key term here is 'you'. If you do it then it is a Form 1. The ATF is making a distinction between a regular gun and one that meets the definitions of an NFA gun. When it moves from one category to the other is what makes a difference. The person or company that makes those changes are the ones that determine what you need to do re: Form 1 or Form 4.

    If you alter the configuration of the gun= Form 1.
    If CZ or Sig alters the configuration of the gun= Form 4.

    If you bought a Sig Rattler in a pistol configuration and in the same checkout basket you bought a stock for that gun, even though you purchased both parts, if you add the stock to the gun yourself you are 'the manufacturer' of an NFA item.

    --

    Likewise if you have a small lathe at home and want to turn your own baffles and make your own suppressor (people do it all the time) that would be a Form 1.

    If you want something you saw on YouTube from Griffin, Dead Air, Silencerco, or any other brand name like that, it requires a Form 4.

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