AIWB now legal in all divisions?

[GJM]

At the end of the day this is a rule change that upends a lot of existing competitors' gear setups, all in hopes of attracting timmies (who I think are not going to flock to USPSA in droves over this change). It's pretty annoying to be a USPSA member and have stuff like this rammed down your throat supposedly for the benefit of potential timmie USPSA shooters, who have historically never been particularly active or interested in the sport anyways. Just look at who is posting in this thread, almost all people who already shoot USPSA, not timmie converts drawn in by this rules change. I am not anti-timmie but it's unfair to the membership to pull shit like this IMO.

I don’t see the holster and mag changes as disruptive, since you can leave your holster and mag pouches where they are, or move them slightly while using the same gear. I don’t see the flashlight appealing to Shadow 2 and Legion shooters, although it will be very appealing to those of us shooting lightweight polymer pistols, where four ounces is significant. What changes will this cause you to make in your gear?

While there has been discussion about appealing to timmie shooters, is that speculation or something the board has said? I believe these changes will mostly be appealing to existing USPSA shooters.

[olstyn]

At the end of the day this is a rule change that upends a lot of existing competitors' gear setups

How so? Do you feel that you're in some way forced to shoot from AIWB now, or forced to run a light? I don't see either of those being true. It's permissive, not a requirement.

[cheby]

I am interested in growing and developing shooting sport as a competition of skills. Not in growing the membership. Those two things are not the same. If new shooters want to play the game, they should meet the criteria required. Instead it seems the criteria, that the people already invested time and money to be in compliance with, is changed to accommodate new shooters. Timmies are not the one who take the shooting skills to the next level. A bunch of middle aged dudes screwing around in the fantasy camps every weekend are not helping. With all due respect.
BTW, I have not seen any top shooters for the last two days who like these changes.

[olstyn]

I am interested in growing and developing shooting sport as a competition of skills. Not in growing the membership. Those two things are not the same. If new shooters want to play the game, they should meet the criteria required. Instead it seems the criteria, that the people already invested time and money to be in compliance with, is changed to accommodate new shooters. Timmies are not the one who take the shooting skills to the next level. A bunch of middle aged dudes screwing around in the fantasy camps every weekend are not helping. With all due respect.

With all due respect, you are looking at this upside down and backwards. In my mind, this rule change is taking something that didn't make sense and making it make sense. To me, at least, the Timmy/gamer aspect of it isn't even relevant. Imagine a world where there is no USPSA/IPSC and you're about to create it for the first time in 2021 when appendix carry is not just "not fringe," but borderline normal. Do you restrict holster position for certain divisions and not others, and if so, how do you justify it? I can't come up with a good reason why Revolver, Open, and Limited are unrestricted in holster and mag carrier placement but Production, Carry Optics, and Single Stack are. (Note that I don't consider "just because we want them to be different" to be a good reason.)

[cheby]

With all due respect, you are looking at this upside down and backwards. In my mind, this rule change is taking something that didn't make sense and making it make sense. To me, at least, the Timmy/gamer aspect of it isn't even relevant. Imagine a world where there is no USPSA/IPSC and you're about to create it for the first time in 2021 when appendix carry is not just "not fringe," but borderline normal. Do you restrict holster position for certain divisions and not others, and if so, how do you justify it? I can't come up with a good reason why Revolver, Open, and Limited are unrestricted in holster and mag carrier placement but Production, Carry Optics, and Single Stack are. (Note that I don't consider "just because we want them to be different" to be a good reason.)

Look, the holster position is basically irrelevant. If appendix carry prevented someone from participation in USPSA competitions, that someone does not understand certain things. Production is being fixed to extinction now.
Personally, it has no affect on me because I stopped shooting Production almost 3 years ago predicting where it was going. In the long run I can see competitors would migrate to divisions that have less limitations or more gun/gear features that make participating easier. Does it help focusing on developing shooting skills though?

[Eyesquared]

I don’t see the holster and mag changes as disruptive, since you can leave your holster and mag pouches where they are, or move them slightly while using the same gear. I don’t see the flashlight appealing to Shadow 2 and Legion shooters, although it will be very appealing to those of us shooting lightweight polymer pistols, where four ounces is significant. What changes will this cause you to make in your gear?

While there has been discussion about appealing to timmie shooters, is that speculation or something the board has said? I believe these changes will mostly be appealing to existing USPSA shooters.

I'm experimenting with different mag pouch placement for now. Not very interested in adding a light because I think it would be counterproductive on the Legion. I do think it's kind of dumb that I bought a pistol purpose built to fit the rules and within less than 2 years the rules have morphed so far that I should have bought a couple guns that cost half as much and would be just as competitive under the new ruleset. My mistake for thinking that the rules wouldn't change, but still annoying.

On the USPSA Instagram account the rationale given is that these changes will "[result] in fewer competitors moved to a less competitive division for their firearm at registration." Anyone who is an existing USPSA shooter would not be surprised if their carry gun and carry position weren't legal in CO or Production. That kind of issue is only really a factor for non-USPSA shooters IMO.

How so? Do you feel that you're in some way forced to shoot from AIWB now, or forced to run a light? I don't see either of those being true. It's permissive, not a requirement.

I am not going to shoot from AIWB in matches I take seriously. However the change in mag pouch placement is something I see affecting a lot of regular USPSA shooters who shoot Prod or CO. I am not going to add a light yet but we'll see. I shoot a heavier gun so the extra weight up front may be more of a hindrance than help.

This kind of stuff should be announced as a proposed change with a comment period, not decided and implemented without any discussion. I understand nobody is making this mandatory but some rules stability or at a minimum some advance notice would not be a bad thing. Every time the USPSA board makes big rules changes, anyone serious about competing has to think about what they need to change in their own setup, and it's annoying/distracting from the actual part of the sport where you train and get good. At the end of the day, prior to these rule changes, anyone who really wanted to compete with their carry gear could have done so and just Practiscore-what-ifed their results into the "proper" division to see where they stood.

[GJM]

I was speaking with a friend about the new rule changes. He shoots carry optics, limited and single stack. He said he had no heartburn with the new rules except for appendix carry. When I asked him why, he said “those guys will shove all that crap up front and then they won’t wanna bend over and pick up steel on stages.”

[YVK]

As long as Production remains lowcap minor, I don’t care that much. I won’t be adding a light to my S2s.

Doubt anyone will, to a 47 oz gun. Question is, especially for production and SS, are you moving your back pouches forward. I know I am.

[LOKNLOD]

I was speaking with a friend about the new rule changes. He shoots carry optics, limited and single stack. He said he had no heartburn with the new rules except for appendix carry. When I asked him why, he said “those guys will shove all that crap up front and then they won’t wanna bend over and pick up steel on stages.”

When shooting Lim-Min from AIWB, I always go straight for the steel it beats the crap out of waiting for the paper to get scored and then tape it up.

[olstyn]

Does it help focusing on developing shooting skills though?

This conversation feels a lot like one I had with a coworker a few years ago when the topic of guns came up where he suggested that I didn't need thing X or thing Y when it came to guns (mags above 10 rounds, etc.). My response was that it wasn't on me to justify needing thing X or thing Y but rather on him to tell me why I shouldn't be allowed to have it.

In that vein, I ask you again: how does removing restrictions on holster and mag carrier placement in Prod, SS, and CO hurt the sport? Does it hurt developing shooting skills? I really don't see how it's problematic, but I'm willing to have my mind changed if you can demonstrate some actual harm.