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Thread: AIWB now legal in all divisions?

  1. #371
    Site Supporter miller_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCS View Post
    Interesting observations! I moved my pouches forward and have been thinking about how I'm gonna make sure and not grab for where the pouches used to be. I was thinking of adding cues like "pouch 1" and moving my hand towards the pouch during visualizations. Any tips on how you did this?
    Dry fire, burkette or full reloads. Add some empty hand, slower visualization runs before dry fire run - making sure to land your hands right where you want them. Don't overthink it. Don't think "it's gonna take lot of reps" or "its gonna be hard" - just let it be simple. 2 sessions and I feel good with new mag
    + holster positions. My $0.02
    The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.

    Humbly improving with CZ's.

  2. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by bofe954 View Post
    You could specify in the WSB to not use the light
    I think it is debatable that they can. I know that it was mentioned in clarification, but I think it is another unintended consequence followed by another Troy's improvisation. I don't think there is anything in the rules that allows WSB to forbid using a permissible bolt-on device, which ironically is required to be functional, to its full capacity. Doing that would be identical to, say, writing WSB with "PCC shooters cannot use laser on this stage".
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  3. #373
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
    I know you are running a Shadow 2, but any plans to add a WML in the future? It really seems split at this point among guys running heavier, steel frame guns.
    I have no plans to add a weighted "light" to my Shadow2s for a few reasons. Primarily, I don't feel the need to add weight to the gun. The current balance works better for me than any other gun I have tried. Recoil is already very mild with 130-135 PF loads, but I can still move the gun quickly and precisely in transitions, draws, and reloads.

    As well, I dislike "tuning" guns, and have come to the conclusion that it's largely a waste of time in Production. Fiddling with recoil spring weight and ammo power factor don't change performance for me, even though I can feel the difference. I'd rather continue to invest my time and effort in tuning my skill.

    I also dislike the idea of fake, weighted "lights". Frankly I think this is a bad rule change for USPSA. What's next, comps for Production because some Timmies carry a Roland Special?

    If I was going to add weight to my Production gun, I would buy a heavier gun like the AO1 (see below).

    My only current interest in WMLs for competition is for low-light stages, assuming they are done well.

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    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 03-14-2021 at 11:39 AM.
    “There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
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  4. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I think it is debatable that they can. I know that it was mentioned in clarification, but I think it is another unintended consequence followed by another Troy's improvisation. I don't think there is anything in the rules that allows WSB to forbid using a permissible bolt-on device, which ironically is required to be functional, to its full capacity. Doing that would be identical to, say, writing WSB with "PCC shooters cannot use laser on this stage".
    Agreed. I can't imagine designing a course that way and would see it as kind of an A-hole move if someone did. The only thing that would irritate me more than basically mandating flashlights would be to not let me use one after I went through the bother of buying a railed gun, light and holster for it and making sure it all made weight and fit in the box.

  5. #375
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCS View Post
    Interesting observations! I moved my pouches forward and have been thinking about how I'm gonna make sure and not grab for where the pouches used to be. I was thinking of adding cues like "pouch 1" and moving my hand towards the pouch during visualizations. Any tips on how you did this?

    Also, I'm running bullets forward because that's what I was running and it's gonna be real uncomfortable on a prone stage but oh well. It seems like cheating having the mag below my nipple line but you are right it does take precise placement of the hand.
    I'm actually very surprised how little practice and thought was required to re-tune my mag retrieval. It took one 45 minute dryfire session. Moving my holster by 3/4" on my belt caused more issues (missed grip). At yesterday's match, I picked my Mag1 and Mag2 as I walked the stages, and when I had free time.

    Adding a rubber bump to the first mag pouch, as an index point for my index finger, seemed to help as well. The 2nd mag pouch was harder to learn than the first.
    “There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie

  6. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I think it is debatable that they can. I know that it was mentioned in clarification, but I think it is another unintended consequence followed by another Troy's improvisation. I don't think there is anything in the rules that allows WSB to forbid using a permissible bolt-on device, which ironically is required to be functional, to its full capacity. Doing that would be identical to, say, writing WSB with "PCC shooters cannot use laser on this stage".
    I do not believe Troy is alone in thinking the WSB can specify that the light not be used. My area director, who voted against adding flashlights, also made similar comments that you can specify that the light not be used in the WSB, on social media, on the day of the rules change.

  7. #377
    I think such WSBs will be successfully disputed.

    I also think it is a nonissue. I've shot stages inside shoothouses, from outside into houses, from houses at outside targets, and in every which way.
    That house at Nats in Frostproof, with targets covering windows, people were plugging them at sporty paces without lights. As long as matches are conducted 8 am - 5 pm, I don't believe WMLs would offer lighting advantages.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  8. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    If I was going to add weight to my Production gun, I would buy a heavier gun like the AO1 (see below).
    This post sent me down a rabbit hole of CZ reading. Really interesting how the flashlight rule is going to push us all to iron out what is "ideal" and what is "preference" in terms of total gun weight and dust cover length.

    These two CZ's and their respective dust covers are such great studies in prospective frame weighting, IMO. I've been going back a year or so in reading lately to see what people were doing with the issue of weight and recoil/performance before the flashlight rule. I thought this thread on Enos was pretty interesting to see where guys landed between the two CZ's without any emotion of a rule change and flashlights clouding the base issues of nose weight, frame weight, recoil and gun handling.
    https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...nge-vs-ao1-ld/


    I've also enjoyed reading this 2011 build thread on Enos with the same perspective in mind:
    https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...n-works-titan/

    USPSA M class poster talking about how he spec'd out his Atlas to 52.7 ounces. Since those 2011's are so customizable to weight, it's interesting to see where those guys land on in terms of weight range and balance through heavy grips, magwells, and guiderods. Same case study of nose and frame weight and the effect on recoil and gun handling without considering flashlights themselves, just the pure effects of the frameweighting they represent IMO.

    Between the heavier CZ choices, existing weight range of 2011's, 1911's going up from 43 towards 50 (new 45oz limit), and a 59 ounce prod limit, it's starting to look like over 40oz is going to be a weight number where you are giving something up by staying lighter, and it starting to become a matter of personal preference in the 45-55oz range with very few going all the way up to 59oz.

    I'm curious if the divisions land on individual "sweet spot" weight ranges or just look to mirror an open gun spec in every way legal way the rules allow per division (alternate theory that ignores possible inherent differences from major power factor and comps).

  9. #379
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    It's been 4 more clarifications since last Friday:

    https://uspsa.org/nroi/rulings

  10. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTacTravis View Post
    This post sent me down a rabbit hole of CZ reading. Really interesting how the flashlight rule is going to push us all to iron out what is "ideal" and what is "preference" in terms of total gun weight and dust cover length.

    These two CZ's and their respective dust covers are such great studies in prospective frame weighting, IMO. I've been going back a year or so in reading lately to see what people were doing with the issue of weight and recoil/performance before the flashlight rule. I thought this thread on Enos was pretty interesting to see where guys landed between the two CZ's without any emotion of a rule change and flashlights clouding the base issues of nose weight, frame weight, recoil and gun handling.
    https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...nge-vs-ao1-ld/


    I've also enjoyed reading this 2011 build thread on Enos with the same perspective in mind:
    https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...n-works-titan/

    USPSA M class poster talking about how he spec'd out his Atlas to 52.7 ounces. Since those 2011's are so customizable to weight, it's interesting to see where those guys land on in terms of weight range and balance through heavy grips, magwells, and guiderods. Same case study of nose and frame weight and the effect on recoil and gun handling without considering flashlights themselves, just the pure effects of the frameweighting they represent IMO.

    Between the heavier CZ choices, existing weight range of 2011's, 1911's going up from 43 towards 50 (new 45oz limit), and a 59 ounce prod limit, it's starting to look like over 40oz is going to be a weight number where you are giving something up by staying lighter, and it starting to become a matter of personal preference in the 45-55oz range with very few going all the way up to 59oz.

    I'm curious if the divisions land on individual "sweet spot" weight ranges or just look to mirror an open gun spec in every way legal way the rules allow per division (alternate theory that ignores possible inherent differences from major power factor and comps).
    I am shooting an Atlas Titan now. Before that I shot a CZ TSO in limited for a year. I did fine with it. Before that I shot Shadow 2 and Shadow 1 in Production for a a long while. It is not necessarily about weight only. The weight distribution maybe more important. Recoil control in Limited is one of the most discussed topics (Sight Trackers, Island barrels, 6" vs 5" guns and so on). What you want is the gun returning consistently to YOU. Nose heavy guns go up less but they also go down harder as I mentioned earlier somewhere in this thread. My CZ TSO (Nose heavy) and my Atlas Titan (Grip heavy) are pretty much the same in terms of overall weight but the sight tracking is more consistent with my 2011. A lot can be overcome in training of course. Obviously some guns/configuration are more forgiving but the top guys are successful with a vast variety of options. You want to understand the theory, not learning tricks. There are a quite of few small shooters/females who are very successful shooters. Some of them even shoot Glocks (https://us.glock.com/en/CONNECT/Team...Ashley-Rheuark)
    There is no way they can grip a gun harder then some big guys out there but they are doing fine because there is more to it then just gripping your heavy gun hard.

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