AIWB now legal in all divisions?

[JCN]

Foley is a head of the organization with 30K members. It is also a part of the international organization with 108 regions. So I'd prefer someone more stable in his position. Having said that, my biggest problem is not actually his interpersonal skills ( Or lack of them). My problem is I desigree with how he runs it on fundamental level

I think that’s totally valid.

Again looking at the precedent of something like the United States Presidency, you’d think we could muster better candidates but we can’t / didn’t.

So I don’t actually have much hope or expectation that the replacement will be better than Foley.

Until you tell me who is going to be the replacement, I can’t really comment on whether I’d like him removed.

I think he has pissed off the vocal minority of upper echelon shooters, but they’re the special interest lobbying group.

At least locally, what he’s done with AIWB and flashlights has increased new member participation dramatically.

And been a complete nothingburger at the highest level. Max Michel didn’t change his holster / mag pouch position nor did he add a flashlight and he continues to crush and slay.

I’d rather have movement of rules than dinosaur IDPA stuck in the 80s.

[Clusterfrack]

Matt Hopkins has said he would be willing to be President.

But, I'm not that worried about it. The vast majority of possible future presidents are mentally stable, and won't run USPSA like a petty dictator. He really is an outlier.

[Sal Picante]

I think that’s totally valid.

Again looking at the precedent of something like the United States Presidency, you’d think we could muster better candidates but we can’t / didn’t.

So I don’t actually have much hope or expectation that the replacement will be better than Foley.

Until you tell me who is going to be the replacement, I can’t really comment on whether I’d like him removed.

I think he has pissed off the vocal minority of upper echelon shooters, but they’re the special interest lobbying group.

At least locally, what he’s done with AIWB and flashlights has increased new member participation dramatically.

And been a complete nothingburger at the highest level. Max Michel didn’t change his holster / mag pouch position nor did he add a flashlight and he continues to crush and slay.

I’d rather have movement of rules than dinosaur IDPA stuck in the 80s.

☝️This. +1.

I don't even understand why the upper level shooters are complaining.
First they hated carry optics, then PCC, then AIWB, then fleshlights...
Most of it didn't fundamentally change anything RE:USPSA and who keeps winning matches...

[JCN]

Matt Hopkins has said he would be willing to be President.

But, I'm not that worried about it. The vast majority of possible future presidents are mentally stable, and won't run USPSA like a petty dictator. He really is an outlier.

I’m not sure that Matt Hopkins would be better. I don’t like the smirk in the Stoeger podcasts and I think he is kind of a special interest candidate.

Do you protect the vocal minority or grow the new members?

☝️This. +1.

I don't even understand why the upper level shooters are complaining.
First they hated carry optics, then PCC, then AIWB, then fleshlights...
Most of it didn't fundamentally change anything RE:USPSA and who keeps winning matches...

Upper level competitors complain no matter the sport. They also often have outsized perception of how much they impact the sport, especially when there are such diverse levels of performance in an amateur sport like this.

That’s why I’m not necessarily thrilled about a Hopkins who is obviously close to Stoeger.

The majority of the clubs are run by regular guys as a labor of love. The average USPSA member does NOT look like the people who really give a crap about rules stability, they want to have fun with their friends and run semi-competitively.

Some of the class changes in the past few years have been great for the sport IMO. High capacity, heavy CO guns as open lite for non-reloaders was awesome. PCC is very popular.

Most of the USPSA membership couldn’t give two shits about Production, but I’m sure we’d get a disproportionate online response if current admin killed the class. But for me as a paying member of the club… I don’t really care either way.

Is this Formula one with new equipment rules each year? Or soccer with no rules changes ever?

I think USPSA has had some real success under Foley unlike IDPA which has died a not so slow death as the entrenched fail to embrace anything new.

[Sal Picante]

I’m not sure that Matt Hopkins would be better. I don’t like the smirk in the Stoeger podcasts and I think he is kind of a special interest candidate.

Do you protect the vocal minority or grow the new members?



Upper level competitors complain no matter the sport. They also often have outsized perception of how much they impact the sport, especially when there are such diverse levels of performance in an amateur sport like this.

That’s why I’m not necessarily thrilled about a Hopkins who is obviously close to Stoeger.

The majority of the clubs are run by regular guys as a labor of love. The average USPSA member does NOT look like the people who really give a crap about rules stability, they want to have fun with their friends and run semi-competitively.

Some of the class changes in the past few years have been great for the sport IMO. High capacity, heavy CO guns as open lite for non-reloaders was awesome. PCC is very popular.

Most of the USPSA membership couldn’t give two shits about Production, but I’m sure we’d get a disproportionate online response if current admin killed the class. But for me as a paying member of the club… I don’t really care either way.

Is this Formula one with new equipment rules each year? Or soccer with no rules changes ever?

I think USPSA has had some real success under Foley unlike IDPA which has died a not so slow death as the entrenched fail to embrace anything new.

☝️Really good points...

The big question that USPSA participants should ask themselves is, "What, exactly are we paying for?"

Is it rules equity? Is it the classification system? Is it rules stability? Is it well run upper-tier matches?

IMHO, I think the classification system helps drive people after shooting performance. The basic administration of rules good in that competitors from anywhere know what to expect when hitting matches at any level.

I listened to Cody's podcast (Shoot Fast Podcast) with Mason Lane and Ben Berry (they're all shooters I respect the hell out of) - which was a good critique of some of the new changes to the rules.
I understand the frustration with lack of rules stability, especially with regard to Production. I was bothered me when production really diverged so much from what it started as (e.g. a place where stock guns compete.)
CZ and Tanfoglio started making tuned pistols that had go-fast options like bull barrels and short resetting triggers because the manufacturers were savvy to their market. It wasn't outside the rules, but it sorta violated the spirit...

The thing that did rub me mildly the wrong way, honestly, was the discounting of people that actually want to do something like AIWB:
I get that I'll probably be the only dude out there running #crotchoptics for a while, but give it time... I'm already seeing 1/3 of people on my Monday night match run AIWB. Are they competitive? No.
However, it might take a bit before these new guys sort things out.

The practical reality is that it changed nothing for Limited, Limited 10, and Open, hardly anything for Production, Single Stack, the 3 dudes that shoot Revolvers (@jetfire).
The largest change was in Carry Optics, which, c'mon, literally has carry in the division name...

I think, regarding gear and divisions, is maybe a trend to review the intent of the divisions.

I understand the frustration that Mason has with the overcrowding of matches. There are so many people going to ALL events that are all run by volunteers at every level!
I can't even profess to have a good solution for this problem - hell, even identifying the cause of the problem is a chore.

IDK - just adding color.

[Sal Picante]

It's not his embarrassing and unprofessional conduct that concerns me the most. It is his repeated abuse of power, and disregard for the bylaws. Threatening, bullying, and banning members for trivial and personal reasons is beyond unacceptable for a USPSA president. There is no reasonable reason he should remain in office.

Here are some reasons I've heard, and my responses:

Foley has been good for USPSA. I don't care. That doesn't excuse the terrible things he's done. Fire him.

If we fire Foley, it will cost USPSA a lot of money. I don't care. Fire him and temporarily raise the dues if necessary.

It would be easier to wait until next election. Sometimes things that need to be done aren't easy. Fire him.

I'm worried Foley will sue USPSA and board members personally if we fire him. Don't be governed by fear. USPSA has the resources to defend the organization and board. And the fact that people are scared Foley would do this underscores why he must go. NOW.

Great reasoning... If you do/don't agree, but being able to articulate. 👌

[JCN]

It's not his embarrassing and unprofessional conduct that concerns me the most. It is his repeated abuse of power, and disregard for the bylaws. Threatening, bullying, and banning members for trivial and personal reasons is beyond unacceptable for a USPSA president. There is no reasonable reason he should remain in office.

Here are some reasons I've heard, and my responses:

Foley has been good for USPSA. I don't care. That doesn't excuse the terrible things he's done. Fire him.

But again keep in mind what you consider completely unacceptable in a USPSA president was considered acceptable by 50% of the nation for the President of the United States so understand that’s your opinion and it might not even be the majority opinion in the demographic skew of USPSA.

Terrible IMO is an emotion and adjective reserved for rapists, murderers, child abusers, etc.

Telling antagonistic critics to fuck off while sitting in a golf cart doesn’t even register on my scale, but I grew up in a city. We would tell each other to fuck off regularly then hash it out. Then go drink a beer together afterwards instead of back biting passive aggressive political correctness that isn’t even attributable to politics anymore.

[Clusterfrack]

Ask Ryan Flowers for his definition of terrible things.

Telling someone to be cool like a little Fonzy, then banning them from uspsa because someone you don’t like posted something on Instagram. That’s terrible.

[JCN]

Ask Ryan Flowers for his definition of terrible things.

Telling someone to be cool like a little Fonzy, then banning them from uspsa because someone you don’t like posted something on Instagram. That’s terrible.

Nope. Someone not being able to compete in a game / sport because he didn’t play by the rules and then got made an example of but with the support of more than just the president?

Not terrible. If you don’t want to be burned don’t play with fire.

Nobody died. Not terrible IMO.

[Clusterfrack]

@JCN, You’re missing my point about a pattern of bullying, threatening, and abuse of power that as well documented.

What each of us considers “terrible” is beside the point.

But, if someone told me to shut up and be cool like a little Fonzie, I might do something terrible. LOL