AIWB now legal in all divisions?

[GJM]

I just spent $70 on magnets.

Better be careful, my wife just let out a yell and I found her stuck to the gun safe with her new magnet!

[YVK]

Now I know what a girl experiences right after getting a boob job.

Based on observations of not an insignificantly sized sample, that would be an urge to share with girlfriends, an urge to wear more revealing clothing, and back pain. Was it what you experienced too?

[NoTacTravis]

I have also previously expressed concerns about rules consistency around the flashlight change in this very thread, but nobody had a good answer for the question I was asking. I'll restate it now: As far as I understand, the rules still say that holsters must fully protect the trigger. How can that work with a light-bearing holster? Lights are wider than trigger guards, so basically every light-bearing holster has space around the trigger guard, definitely enough for foreign objects, and in some cases, maybe even fingers, to get into. Based on that, it sounds to me like the rule change around lights makes the lights legal, but there won't be a way to actually run them because the holsters won't fit within the rules. Unless, of course, I'm misunderstanding...

The answer to this is new aluminum race holsters for everyone. You know, just like everyone carries with their EDC. So this will make things fully accessible and low cost to all. For another $175.

[Norville]

That's fair, and I don't disagree with the basic point, except in the case of rules that didn't seem to make sense to begin with. (I believe the holster position rules fell under that category.) Having now gotten through the whole podcast, I still generally dislike the elitist attitude of the three people in it, but their points about the potential impact of flashlights do make logical sense, apart from the reductio ad absurdum they got into about dead batteries and light/laser combos. I can see them being an advantage during suboptimal lighting conditions for sure.

I have also previously expressed concerns about rules consistency around the flashlight change in this very thread, but nobody had a good answer for the question I was asking. I'll restate it now: As far as I understand, the rules still say that holsters must fully protect the trigger. How can that work with a light-bearing holster? Lights are wider than trigger guards, so basically every light-bearing holster has space around the trigger guard, definitely enough for foreign objects, and in some cases, maybe even fingers, to get into. Based on that, it sounds to me like the rule change around lights makes the lights legal, but there won't be a way to actually run them because the holsters won't fit within the rules. Unless, of course, I'm misunderstanding...

I just checked the OWB holster I have, and I can’t get a finger near the trigger. A piece of coat hanger wire, probably. Much like a lot of this, I don’t think all the ramifications have been thought through.

I think 5.2.7.4 was meant to address open and partially covered triggers, not a fully covered trigger that would require a concerted effort to activate.

[Eyesquared]

That's fair, and I don't disagree with the basic point, except in the case of rules that didn't seem to make sense to begin with. (I believe the holster position rules fell under that category.) Having now gotten through the whole podcast, I still generally dislike the elitist attitude of the three people in it, but their points about the potential impact of flashlights do make logical sense, apart from the reductio ad absurdum they got into about dead batteries and light/laser combos. I can see them being an advantage during suboptimal lighting conditions for sure.

I have also previously expressed concerns about rules consistency around the flashlight change in this very thread, but nobody had a good answer for the question I was asking. I'll restate it now: As far as I understand, the rules still say that holsters must fully protect the trigger. How can that work with a light-bearing holster? Lights are wider than trigger guards, so basically every light-bearing holster has space around the trigger guard, definitely enough for foreign objects, and in some cases, maybe even fingers, to get into. Based on that, it sounds to me like the rule change around lights makes the lights legal, but there won't be a way to actually run them because the holsters won't fit within the rules. Unless, of course, I'm misunderstanding...

Personally I think it's not entirely accurate how everything related to USPSA rules changes always gets spun to be elitists vs the everyman. Then of course you have to "tone-police" the elitists because they're whiny and rude, which is also a convenient way of getting them to shut up without having to make an actual argument in favor of changing rules. None of the people at my local club match were shooting from concealment, shooting from any form of AIWB, or using lights on their guns. They are the norm in USPSA, and the issue these rule changes supposedly fix, apparently did not meaningfully affect them. I don't see anyone I know suddenly deciding they want to shoot a lot more USPSA because of the rule changes. Does it make sense to act like these changes were made for the benefit of the everyday USPSA shooter? On social media I see a lot of people getting up in arms at the "elitists", but I haven't seen any meaningful arguments from those people explaining why they are so attached to the idea of being able to use flashlights in USPSA when (assuming they shot USPSA before) they were doing just fine without them.

Pro-flashlight arguments I've seen:
1. USPSA is supposed to be practical. (disregard the 38 supercomp open guns with frame mounted optics and 29 rounds in a mag, also disregard that shooting well is transferable with or without a light on your gun)
2. Evens the playing field between polymer and steel frame guns (IMO the jury is out on this, for all we know it may turn out that the best combination is to go all the way for 59oz, like an open gun)
3. Less heartbreak for the new shooter who shows up and gets bumped to open. (okay, but he's still going to learn the hard way about stuff like footfaults on stomp pads, getting bumped to open for starting with 11 rounds on an unloaded start, etc. You can't insulate new shooters from having to learn the confusing rules forever.)

Is the everyman (as opposed to the elitist GM) someone who doesn't currently shoot USPSA? Is it even possible to change the rules to persuade them to join? As I noted earlier in the thread I see many more current USPSA shooters talking about this than prospective ones.

[olstyn]

I think 5.2.7.4 was meant to address open and partially covered triggers, not a fully covered trigger that would require a concerted effort to activate.

No doubt you're right about the intent, and no doubt there will be a ruling that says I'm wrong soon, but the wording of that rule as it currently stands at bare minimum makes light-bearing holsters sound questionable if for no other reason than the word "completely":

5.2.7Competitors must not be permitted to commence a course of fire wearing:
...
5.2.7.4 A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or activation of, the trigger while holstered.

[olstyn]

Then of course you have to "tone-police" the elitists because they're whiny and rude, which is also a convenient way of getting them to shut up without having to make an actual argument in favor of changing rules.

When has being whiny and rude ever been a good way to persuade people that your position is the right one? If they presented their arguments in the way @Clusterfrack does instead of being snide and talking down to their supposed audience, they might actually get somewhere.

As it is, listening to them, I had to fight through my baseline dislike of listening to the way they spoke and their disdain for all of us untermenschen to get to the meat of their argument. As I've already said, I see their point on WMLs and have concerns of my own about the consistency of those rules that they didn't even bring up, but I continue to believe that the gear positioning thing is just a correction to how things should have been all along.

[Eyesquared]

When has being whiny and rude ever been a good way to persuade people that your position is the right one? If they presented their arguments in the way @Clusterfrack does instead of being snide and talking down to their supposed audience, they might actually get somewhere.

As it is, listening to them, I had to fight through my baseline dislike of listening to the way they spoke and their disdain for all of us untermenschen to get to the meat of their argument. As I've already said, I see their point on WMLs and have concerns of my own about the consistency of those rules that they didn't even bring up, but I continue to believe that the gear positioning thing is just a correction to how things should have been all along.

I listened to the same podcast as you and while I find they're not inclined to give the USPSA org any benefit of the doubt (or rather they tend to assume the worst), I really did not perceive the snobbery you perceived.

I also still think the USPSA "everyman" is sort of a fictional construction. As stated before, I think the rules change benefits a tiny tiny fraction of existing shooters and if the holsters were stopping "tactically-minded" people from shooting USPSA, wait until they hear about other unrealistic gamer stuff like doing the flamingo on a hard lean, shooting while falling out of the shooting box in the last position on a stage, in-battery speed reloads, no use of cover, that goofy kneeling prone everyone does instead of actually going prone, not having to PID threats vs non-threats, only 2 rounds to neutralize any threat, etc. USPSA is so riddled with game artificialities. Anyone who was actually prevented from shooting because they had the wrong holster or they absolutely had to have their WML missed the forest for the trees.

[NoTacTravis]

I've listened to Cody Axon and Mason Lane on a number of podcasts for the past year or so and really enjoyed both what they have to say and their approach to the sport. i thought this episode was a solid listen that I enjoyed as well.

[Bucky]

I just spent $70 on magnets.

Magnets allowed in all divisions now?