AIWB now legal in all divisions?

[Clusterfrack]

A guy has to draw a line somewhere. When you have more than my first car cost in your primary and back-up Shadow 2, that $200 could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back!

LOL! And the CO Shadow2 I only use for dryfire. You're right, it has zero to do with the $. It's just the idea that somehow rubs me the wrong way. It would be like if compensators were allowed in Production--except the weights won't make that much difference. I'll just keep on shooting my S2s and trying to get 0.1% better.

[Clusterfrack]

I'm not here to argue, this is a serious question. Are we already kindof at that point when people are running Shadows instead of their P07s or 75 Compacts, Q5 SFs instead of their PPQs, Legions instead of their 320 Compacts, etc.? As in, wasn't the guy who could only afford the pistols he actually carried already losing an arms race in a division that was initially supposed to be for guys like him? If that's the case, the guy who just has the G19 or M&P Compact he carries at least now has the option of closing the gap a little bit just by throwing a heavy light on it and buying a new holster, instead of buying a $1000 or more metal framed version of his carry gun or something like it just for games.

That said I'd agree that for the real purposes of allowing lights, you need a list and prohibition on modifications like you have for the guns themselves in Production.

I can't argue with that. The fake light that's actually a weight seems so dumb, but really who cares. And why not encourage people to shoot their plastic guns if they want? As long as it brings people to or back to Production, that's a good thing.

[Clusterfrack]

The core of production is iron sights, DUTY gun, minor. The DUTY part is increasingly becoming an issue. That's what is killing Production especially when the other alternatives are introduced.

I would go with a trigger weight restriction instead, like IPSC.

[cheby]

I'm not here to argue, this is a serious question. Are we already kindof at that point when people are running Shadows instead of their P07s or 75 Compacts, Q5 SFs instead of their PPQs, Legions instead of their 320 Compacts, etc.? As in, wasn't the guy who could only afford the pistols he actually carried already losing an arms race in a division that was initially supposed to be for guys like him? If that's the case, the guy who just has the G19 or M&P Compact he carries at least now has the option of closing the gap a little bit just by throwing a heavy light on it and buying a new holster, instead of buying a $1000 or more metal framed version of his carry gun or something like it just for games.

That said I'd agree that for the real purposes of allowing lights, you need a list and prohibition on modifications like you have for the guns themselves in Production.

These are very valid points.
Here's another strategy if you don't like my Olympic games and establishment strategy. This is at least some strategy. I mentioned it earlier but one more time:
Divisions are separated by what that actually matters
1. Production. Duty gun, no 50oz bullshit, 15rd capacity. Minor
2. Carry optics. Duty gun, again weight limit, 15rds, minor, optic
3. If you want to shoot irons but a real competition gun - major ammo and do whatever you want except optics and compensator.
4. Similarly Open - competition guns, compensator, major ammo, optics.

This separates divisions based on what matters. Holster position doesn't matter.

[cheby]

I would go with a trigger weight restriction instead, like IPSC.

Trigger weight is important, agree. But weight is more important in my opinion

[Bucky]

How so? They continue to shoot with 10 round mags during in-state matches, and with normal capacity elsewhere. I once squadded with a full team that came to our state match from Hawaii. They didn't seem to have a problem transitioning to higher capacity mags during the match.

So logistically how does that work? I mean especially with STI type guns the magazine can be the weak link. Where did these high Magazines come from? Do the shooters have to rent storage space outside the state to use it? What if they’re not near State lines? Do they borrow mags? I don’t know anybody that would want to do that, because they’re going to want to make sure the magazines work. Admittedly, many can make it work if need be. It is difficult for some, and for others they may be taking certain liberties.

You set a requirement for a firing pin block on all guns by a specific date, and you can test if block is functional without a drop test. Pretty sure this can be done on all hammer guns very easily, and on Glocks with a little bit more work. However, I think that such rule would be important even without enforcement considerations.

1. 1911s can be made drop safe without the firing pin safety.

2. A firing pin safety doesn’t guaranty drop safeness. Remember ALL P320s came with FPS.

[GJM]

My personal (timmie) baggage is my belief that self defense skills with a firearm allow me to live and recreate more independently, and at its core, I see USPSA as a way to do an activity that is both a sport and defensive shooting proficiency endeavor. The more my guns deviate from something suitable for defense, the worse I feel about the time I am investing. I feel better about adding weight with a Surefire, than getting a less practical heavier weight gun.

[cheby]

Here's the funny part. Or sad... It looks like the discussion about the rules changes are happening here only. There were 4 threads on Brian enos. All are locked up now. We should be able to discuss things that we really care about.

[Clusterfrack]

Here's the funny part. It looks like the discussion about the rules changes are happening here only. There were 4 threads on Brian enos. All are locked up now. We should be able to discuss things that we really care about.

I'm not surprised. I don't have the time or patience for BE. Meanwhile, on PSTG there's a similarly collegial and calm discussion. Most people aren't making major changes or freaking the fuck out.

I have another thought: what if the WML rule leads to tactically useful weighted WMLs?

[cheby]

I have another thought: what if the WML rule leads to tactically useful weighted WMLs?

I am more concerned with what if they make low light stages where the WML are nessesary? What if you have to have them? What is next?? Lasers? Bayonets?? What skills are we even testing now??