AIWB now legal in all divisions?

[YVK]

@YVK the Shadow 2 and TSO looks like it's relatively drop safe with a stock firing pin and spring, even without a firing pin block. The biggest offender seems to be the extended pin on testing that people did on Enos when the death happened.

From the letter of the rules, you could argue that the firing pin and spring are the drop safety mechanism (like an LCP) and by altering them, you've disabled a factory safety mechanism which I think is illegal anyway?

It probably is, although this would be a good question to Ceska Zbrojovka as to what their drop safety protocols and the whole -29 degrees deal are. Probably no less safe than series 70 1911s with XP and titanium firing pin.
From the standpoint that @Bucky brought up, those kind of safety setups are unenforceable, which is why I'd still prefer a firing pin block.

Besides enforcement issues, I dunno if you were already on this site when I last mentioned me dropping a gun during National. That gun having FP block was actually reassuring in retrospect. Unfortunately the sob didn't run.

I dunno if changing out factory springs and pins counts for disabling a safety. I think that solution to that questiin could be borrowed from IPSC rulebook.

[RevolverRob]

I got confused by all the bitching in here.

Are flashlights viewed as a negative - because they competitive advantage or because now they'll promote Tac Timmies and drive the 'game' away?

[Clusterfrack]

I'm satisfied with the S2 and OEM FP. Even if inertial firing happened that's very likely to be muzzle down. As I've written elsewhere, allowing us to start with hammer down on the decock notch would be an added safety option.

[Clusterfrack]

I got confused by all the bitching in here.

Are flashlights viewed as a negative - because they competitive advantage or because now they'll promote Tac Timmies and drive the 'game' away?

Because as @Gio wrote, it will lead to more stupid things you have to buy to be competitive. I do not want to have to spend $200 on a tungsten "light" that puts out 1 lumen. Weights don't belong in Production. But whatever, at least the division retains its core: minor, lowcap, iron sights.

[RevolverRob]

It probably is, although this would be a good question to Ceska Zbrojovka as to what their drop safety protocols and the whole -29 degrees deal are. Probably no less safe than series 70 1911s with XP and titanium firing pin.
From the standpoint that @Bucky brought up, those kind of safety setups are unenforceable, which is why I'd still prefer a firing pin block.

Besides enforcement issues, I dunno if you were already on this site when I last mentioned me dropping a gun during National. That gun having FP block was actually reassuring in retrospect. Unfortunately the sob didn't run.

I dunno if changing out factory springs and pins counts for disabling a safety. I think that solution to that questiin could be borrowed from IPSC rulebook.

No one wants to hear my suggestion - Which is remove the steel CZs, Tanfos, Legions, Q5 SF, etc. from Production and Carry Optics.

Once those guns have to compete side by side with the 2011s - it will all go the same direction it once did.

But then maybe that's too Tactical and not gamer enough for Production. Or is it too Gamer in Production now?

[cheby]

How about this for the strategy?
I would love to see a practical shooting becomes an Olympic discipline. Even if it doesn't look possible today considering the current political environment, we should be trying. If the Olympic games are hosted in the "right" country (And today it is not USA or Great Britain unfortunately), it is possible to introduce practical shooting as a demonstration sport similar to taekwondo at the Summer Olympics in 1988 in Seoul. Such development would do more to our 2A causes then all timmies combined. I'd love to see USPSA as a way to get a scholarship in a good universities. I'd like to watch USPSA Nationals on ESPN. This is important because it looks like even among gun owners, majority don't know about it . The rules integrity and consistency are major requirements for it. We need to focus on the skills development first. This is a reason for example why 3guns is not doing well lately- it is a fun shoot where the rules depend on the club. No many serious shooters like it.
There's more to it, but here's the direction, for a change.

[GJM]

It probably is, although this would be a good question to Ceska Zbrojovka as to what their drop safety protocols and the whole -29 degrees deal are. Probably no less safe than series 70 1911s with XP and titanium firing pin..

I would give you a like for this post if you weren’t showing off your eastern bloc knowledge with the CZ spelling.

Because as @Gio wrote, it will lead to more stupid things you have to buy to be competitive. I do not want to have to spend $200 on a tungsten "light" that puts out 1 lumen. Weights don't belong in Production. But whatever, at least the division retains its core: minor, lowcap, iron sights.

A guy has to draw a line somewhere. When you have more than my first car cost in your primary and back-up Shadow 2, that $200 could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back!

[cheby]

But whatever, at least the division retains its core: minor, lowcap, iron sights.

The core of production is iron sights, DUTY gun, minor. The DUTY part is increasingly becoming an issue. That's what is killing Production especially when the other alternatives are introduced.

[Elwin]

Because as @Gio wrote, it will lead to more stupid things you have to buy to be competitive. I do not want to have to spend $200 on a tungsten "light" that puts out 1 lumen. Weights don't belong in Production. But whatever, at least the division retains its core: minor, lowcap, iron sights.

I'm not here to argue, this is a serious question. Are we already kindof at that point when people are running Shadows instead of their P07s or 75 Compacts, Q5 SFs instead of their PPQs, Legions instead of their 320 Compacts, etc.? As in, wasn't the guy who could only afford the pistols he actually carried already losing an arms race in a division that was initially supposed to be for guys like him? If that's the case, the guy who just has the G19 or M&P Compact he carries at least now has the option of closing the gap a little bit just by throwing a heavy light on it and buying a new holster, instead of buying a $1000 or more metal framed version of his carry gun or something like it just for games.

That said I'd agree that for the real purposes of allowing lights, you need a list and prohibition on modifications like you have for the guns themselves in Production.

[Eyesquared]

I'm not here to argue, this is a serious question. Are we already kindof at that point when people are running Shadows instead of their P07s or 75 Compacts, Q5 SFs instead of their PPQs, Legions instead of their 320 Compacts, etc.? As in, wasn't the guy who could only afford the pistols he actually carried already losing an arms race in a division that was initially supposed to be for guys like him? If that's the case, the guy who just has the G19 or M&P Compact he carries at least now has the option of closing the gap a little bit just by throwing a heavy light on it and buying a new holster, instead of buying a $1000 or more metal framed version of his carry gun or something like it just for games.

That said I'd agree that for the real purposes of allowing lights, you need a list and prohibition on modifications like you have for the guns themselves in Production.

You're absolutely right that the most favored production guns are basically production race guns. In all fairness these guns didn't really exist 10 years ago. IMO if USPSA had a minimum trigger weight in prod and CO that would discourage some of it. I'm convinced that a sub 3lb trigger is almost always an advantage in USPSA. The weight of the gun is somewhat of a preference thing.

That being said the lights rule seems to be something that sounded good in theory but has some unforeseen consequences. I really don't think the board intended for this rule change to start a trend of people slapping lights on guns solely for the weight or potentially as an aiming device. The other issue with a production light list is that it seems like it would be an issue to keep up with all the changes in lights and new models etc. If the goal is to allow someone to show up with their carry or duty gun and shoot without having to jump through hoops, trying to keep a production legal light list seems detrimental to that.