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Thread: AIWB now legal in all divisions?

  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Can you provide the cliff notes summary of his conclusions?
    -Pretty much that the added weight worked, the more the better to the extent that he took it with Glocks. Mainly just about all the times were nearly identical but the hits were markedly better with each step up in weight.

    -Group size shrank, the gun felt like it "flopped back into place" with the flashlight and the the gun felt more stable. Big flashlight (TLR1) was noticeable when drawing and would take some getting used to.

    -The only real surprise seemed to be that the Glock actually transitioned better with the weight as the lighter/more stock version tended to suffer from over transitioning.

    -Caveats about it being one particular shooter and body type.



    These were my Cliff's Notes. I could obviously be losing a lot in the translation or have my own takeaways and missed others.

  2. #322
    I don't have a heavy metal railed gun to test with - but I did test the following lights recently for what I thought was going to be a video - but honestly doing this kind of video takes FOREVER setting up and I lost interest in it and ammo being as precious as it is I felt like I'd be better suited to save it for other content.

    Beretta LTT RDO
    Glock 34.5
    Sig P320 AXG 3.7"

    with the Streamlight lineup TLR-1, TLR-7, TLR-9.

    All of the guns benefitted immediately from the added weight stabilizing them for sighting in on shots - so transitioning to an aimed sight picture is a bit improved. The recoil impulse - obviously - changes hanging a 4oz light off the gun. I think it imbalances the gun - a lot.

    The Glock 34 with TLR1 and TLR9 was easier to aim but I didn't perceive a big advantage to how the gun was tracking for with vs. without - but I didn't test all distances - I was just shooting an array from 12-15 yards with irons. For sure the sights when you pull up on the target to aim settle down faster. No difference between TLR1 vs TLR9 in perception with iron sights. Both were different from no light. The TLR9 is basically custom made for 5.34" guns - but will only fit in the box on guns with no beavertail more than probably. I prefer the G34 with a light to no light - but I didn't test high speed shredding. I shot at a moderate pace - probably .3 splits.

    Sig AXG with TLR7 - The 4" gun with a TLR7 is awesome. It benefitted from more stability same as the glock - but it handles better. I really like a 4" gun with a dot. The balance of the gun with a 3 oz light isn't affected as much since it's a bit shorter. Since the bore axis is so high on the P320 I could notice a difference in muzzle climb. I'll probably need to test this with the MantisX and high speed. I think that carry optics guns 2.0 will be 4" guns with full grips. The balance is so much better on this variant. A fat heavy slide like the P320 has is great for slowing down the snappier recoil impulse of a 4" gun. If you asked me right now which glock to buy for CO - my answer is 45 or 17. In a game where sight radius doesn't matter the shorter barrels draw faster and swing a bit nicer - plus on plastic guns they aren't as muzzle heavy.

    Beretta with TLR1. This is cheating. Dot climb in the window was noticeably reduced. Sights acquired faster. No more perceived muzzle dip when the slide closes than usual - likely due to the locking block design of the gun. Because it's got a really high bore axis it seems to affect the muzzle climb more - I suspect that guns with high bore axes benefit the most from having a WML - so PPQ/PDP, Caniks, etc will likely reap more of a performance gain than super low bore axis guns. The WML on the 92 felt like cheating. I would probably still favor the full size 92 over a centurion for CO despite my comments above because of the TLR1 being flush with the LTT crown. I would love it if Ernest would test the TLR7 on a centurion - I suspect that will still handle like a middle weight gun - and swing a bit better. I cannot overemphasize how much more it feels like cheating with a light on the 92. The 92 as it is has about the best recoil impulse in the category (in my opinion - obviously) and giving it the performance gain of a heavy weight with out making it a truly heavy weight gun is fantastic. Never mind it's got about the best trigger going in the segment.

    Hey Ernest - can you do some testing on one of your Centurions with a TLR7?

    I need to get a Shadow 2 Optics Ready to test for the heavy weight DASA guns.

    I'm probably shooting Open this year and not carry optics - but if I did - of the guns I have right now it'd be the TLR1 on my LTT RDO. The problem is obviously going to be holster selection. Holster makers just got handed a big job of work to do.

  3. #323
    HM, thanks for the post, excellent info. I personally am excited about all this, and my full size carry gun may get a light.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #324
    Member Sal Picante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I may need to pick up a spare job as a greeter at the box store, because this is getting expensive — my wife just showed me her new CO rig. Probably came via expedited freight too!

    Attachment 68694
    "Shoot CO!", they said.

    "... it's cheaper than Open!", they said.


  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I definitely believe in this notion of being in rhythm with your gun, load and spring set up.
    This is exactly what I was saying. If you commit to the nose heavy gun, it is all or nothing. This set up would be the one you are in rhythm with. It could be tuned up a little with the recoil springs to some extend of course but not much. Also of course it depends on individual grips and the body types but the physics would work the same

  6. #326
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    And now, let's talk about lasers, gentlemen,

    https://nroi.org/rules-qa/flashlight...and-hip-bones/

  7. #327
    Like the fact that a TLR2 weighs 0.5 ounces more than a TLR1 so would be a heavier off the shelf legal frame weight for only $140 more for the 1/2 oz?
    Last edited by NoTacTravis; 03-11-2021 at 10:32 PM.

  8. #328
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    It almost seems like Troy doesn’t care if you make a tortured flash-type light.

    I take it to mean it’s open season on flashlights....

  9. #329
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    So lasers can be attached but not used. If the flashlight is broken you apparently need a Range Master's approval to change "gun equipment". Unlike a red dot, BTW.

    it's muddied even further now. Awesome

  10. #330
    Methinks it is time to move past the disappointment on one side and jubilation on another and perhaps start thinking what we might learn, or not learn, from sport changing along the new rules.

    I found out today that if you moved holster forward so it is across your hip joint, it prevents you from taking an aggressive step forward. Who would've guessed.

    I think it would be interesting to see what free weights, I meant flashlights, will do to performance. I suppose most lightweight gun users will derive some benefits. As always, it will be interesting to watch and analyze outliers, which in this case will be poly gun users who choose to keep their guns light, and heavy steel gun users who choose to make their guns heavier.

    I don't think we'll learn anything about AIWB in Production since those guys will have a big disadvantage against conventional setups due to mags. CO, maybe some will run ̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶c̶e̶a̶l̶e̶d̶ slightly covered buckets like Tier 1 with mag and compete OK. I don't take those holsters seriously, not with large guns at least, so to me it won't tell much. I don't anticipate anyone to run true concealment holster and compact guns.

    I don't anticipate ranks' growth. I anticipate that new rules will be more gamed than used for purported reasons of EDC use in sport.

    What else will we learn?
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

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