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Thread: Apparently pregnant women aren’t a threat to you - dumbest law I’ve ever seen

  1. #11
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    I ran it by my wife.

    She did mention it’s difficult to breathe while pregnant with her arms behind her back.

    Clear lapse in judgement/discretion to bring up this potentially inflammatory issue. But I worked until 2:30 AM and drove home at 8 this morning. That’s what I’m blaming it on.

    I told her I thought the legislators were just as scared as I was.

    However, this is an officer safety issue IMHO waiting to happen.
    God Bless,

    Brandon

  2. #12
    The thing that makes this law not dumb but incoherent is that in many contexts, the fetus is considered part of the woman's body and has no protection under law in its own right. If the fetus were indeed part of the woman's body, then the pregnant woman clearly deserves no special protection under the law when it comes to her interactions with cops.

    But if the pregnant woman does deserve special protection under the law due to being the protector of a special little creature that itself deserves our care, then that means the fetus is not part of the woman's body but has its own status in the eyes of the law.

    You can't have it both ways, not if you are interested in silly little things like rationality and logical consistency.

    Because I know that the fetus is a little human being with all the rights endowed in each of us by our Creator, I tend to favor laws like this that aim to protect the child even from its own mother when her behavior--fighting with a cop, say, or hiring a contract killer--endangers the child. I recognize it presents all kinds of difficulties for you folks following the vocation of Peace Officer, and I'm grateful to you for all you do in our service. I trust that you can see these babies deserve your special consideration even if the babies have been very unfortunate in their choice of mother.
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWT View Post
    I ran it by my wife.

    She did mention it’s difficult to breathe while pregnant with her arms behind her back.

    Clear lapse in judgement/discretion to bring up this potentially inflammatory issue. But I worked until 2:30 AM and drove home at 8 this morning. That’s what I’m blaming it on.

    I told her I thought the legislators were just as scared as I was.

    However, this is an officer safety issue IMHO waiting to happen.
    I guarantee you I can handcuff her without causing a breathing issue. Just takes a couple of pairs of handcuffs.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    I trust that you can see these babies deserve your special consideration even if the babies have been very unfortunate in their choice of mother.
    Believe me I do.

    This was a solution in search of a problem. To my knowledge there hasn’t been a wave of pregnant women being injured or losing babies because they were handcuffed. It’s really a non-issue. If it was an issue we would be seeing lawsuits (plural) and the State would have addressed it in the Basic Police Academy.

    But none of that has happened. Maybe an isolated incident, but I haven’t even seen that.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    I guarantee you I can handcuff her without causing a breathing issue. Just takes a couple of pairs of handcuffs.
    That makes sense.

    There you go.

    I’m not advocating for officers not being able to handcuff pregnant women (absolute opposite actually) to be clear.

    I just figured I’d share the data point from a pregnant woman.
    God Bless,

    Brandon

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Believe me I do.

    This was a solution in search of a problem. To my knowledge there hasn’t been a wave of pregnant women being injured or losing babies because they were handcuffed. It’s really a non-issue. If it was an issue we would be seeing lawsuits (plural) and the State would have addressed it in the Basic Police Academy.

    But none of that has happened. Maybe an isolated incident, but I haven’t even seen that.
    I believe you, for sure. I said I support laws like these, but I didn't actually mean I think this particular law was needful or whatever. I just meant that I tend to like any laws the recognize the humanity of babies, and then I got a bit rhetorically carried away at the end of the post. Sorry if it seemed like I was saying that y'all are beating up on pregnant ladies and need to be reined in. I don't think that!
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWT View Post
    That makes sense.

    There you go.

    I’m not advocating for officers not being able to handcuff pregnant women (absolute opposite actually) to be clear.

    I just figured I’d share the data point from a pregnant woman.
    And I appreciate her perspective. Here’s one of the real problems with this law:

    (4) "Restrain" means to use any shackles, handcuffs, or other physical restraint.
    What exactly does other physical restraint mean? Grabbing and controlling her hands while I check her for weapons is a form of physical restraint? Using what we call an escort position (grabbing their arm) to guide someone we are walking is a form of restraint. Neither of which involve handcuffs or shackles, but both of which may now be a crime if we do either one.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  8. #18
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    I believe you, for sure. I said I support laws like these, but I didn't actually mean I think this particular law was needful or whatever. I just meant that I tend to like any laws the recognize the humanity of babies, and then I got a bit rhetorically carried away at the end of the post. Sorry if it seemed like I was saying that y'all are beating up on pregnant ladies and need to be reined in. I don't think that!
    I didn’t take it that way. No worries.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    And I appreciate her perspective. Here’s one of the real problems with this law:



    What exactly does other physical restraint mean? Grabbing and controlling her hands while I check her for weapons is a form of physical restraint? Using what we call an escort position (grabbing their arm) to guide someone we are walking is a form of restraint. Neither of which involve handcuffs or shackles, but both of which may now be a crime if we do either one.
    I believe it also said you cannot confine her either.

    How times have changed. Very early in my career, a couple detectives from your agency came down and arrested one of our residents for robbery. She was nine months pregnant and I remember them telling her that if she went into labor, they would take her to the hospital, then return her to the jail after the delivery.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    So the Ohio Legislature snuck this gem in during their lame duck session back in December. New law that makes it illegal, yes illegal, to handcuff or restrain a pregnant women or a women that’s up to 6 weeks post partum unless it’s an “emergency circumstance”. If we know she’s pregnant. No guidance on what “know” means. Oh yeah, and if it is an emergency circumstance we have to call her doctor after things calm down and let them know. And picking up a prisoner at a jail prison? Basically have to get a doctors permission to use handcuffs. Violating this gem is a misdemeanor of the first degree.

    Can’t wait until the turds figure this out. Every female will tell us she’s pregnant.

    Goes into effect April 12. Haven’t received any guidance from the State yet. This is gonna be interesting.

    https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/.../05?format=pdf



    I believe the effective date in this terrific piece of legislation should be April 1st, not April 12th.
    "We are the domestic pets of a human zoo we call civilization."

    Laurence Gonzales - "Deep Survival."

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