this is a WC BP thumb safety and its very comfortable for me
my ACW thumb safety was also digging into me. Rob rolled it for me. He called it tactical.
Ouch
Same ACW with a tactical roll
here is that Staccato from 2019
this is a WC BP thumb safety and its very comfortable for me
my ACW thumb safety was also digging into me. Rob rolled it for me. He called it tactical.
Ouch
Same ACW with a tactical roll
here is that Staccato from 2019
If you're going to be a bear….be a GRIZZLY!
THIS!Originally Posted by JAD
"... And miles to go before I sleep".
We need to talk less about the gun and more about circumstances one would deactivate the safety/draw the pistol.
1) If I am drawing the pistol reactively there is some stimulus that tells me I need to get my pistol out and shoot immediately. In that case, you should deactivate the safety as soon as possible and get your finger in the trigger guard as soon as the gun is level/in the direction of whatever stimulus told you that immediate use of deadly force was needed. Think of the body-cam footage where a suspect rapidly produces a weapon and begins engaging the officer.
2) If I am drawing the pistol proactively then the weapon does not come off safe, nor does it come out of the holster with the same speed as if when it is drawn reactively. Think of the "bump in the night" or an officer responding to a report of a break in.
3) Thumb under the safety is a position for movement and administrative handling. It is not a ready position.
4) Thumb on top of the safety is part of a ready position. A threat is perceived as imminent.
Colorful Vignette:
1. You fastrope onto a single story structure in a top-down assault. As you clear the first room, engaging combatants at arms length, your carbine ceases to function and you immediately transition to your pistol and finish engaging the individual in your sector. Reactive draw, weapon comes out and is immediately off safe.
2. With that room clear, you're now in a position of cover and concealment, you safe and holster your pistol. Attempting to remedy the malfunction, you realize your rifle took a round to the receiver and is now ineffective. You sling the rifle to your back and draw the pistol to continue the assault. Proactive draw, no haste, weapon on safe.
3. Your team has moved to assault the next building across the street. They have near and far side security. You sprint across the narrow street, your thumb firmly under the safety, finger off the trigger. No threat is immediately imminent or identified. You need to move rapidly and safely.
4. You reach the door of the building, you're the first man in as no one cares about your gun problems. You bring the pistol to a high port position, thumb on top of safety, finger off the trigger. You are about to enter a room and shoot armed combatants at close range. This requires a ready position, thumb on safety is part of the ready position.
@Joe,
I would say that the thumb under safety is a good idea even as you're making entry. The time difference it takes to shoot (in my comparisons thus far) is negligible. ETA: From a compressed ready, low ready, or high ready, it takes longer to get my sights on target than it does to deactivate the safety in either manner.
You won't always be on point, and it'd really suck to have a weapon at high port or trained up a stairwell, trip, and put one in the back of a team mate given the typical human "oh fuck" response is to clench the hand. Thumb on safety allows this to happen, and thumb under safety prohibits this from happening.
As I said earlier I don't think it's particularly problematic to run thumb on safety, but thumb under safety does seem like a better way to me.
Last edited by TGS; 03-07-2021 at 07:24 PM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
This conversation has convinced me beyond any reasonable doubt whatsoever that I am not a deep thinker. At least when it comes to 1911 thumb safeties.
I completely agree with the observation that the standard for speed shooting has changed immensely in the past 40 years. But for me, different positions of the thumb on the safety have never seemed to be the solution to those increased challenges. Remember . . . . I confessed I am not a deep thinker on this subject.
I am humbled, but satisfied with my current approach as taught to me 40 years ago.
And just to clarify my earlier description of how Cooper and Smith taught me in 1981: They instructed us to not deactivate the safety until the flash sight picture was acquired. And that's how we did it in the beginning.
But by the end of the week, I certainly was deactivating that safety as soon as the pistol had cleared the holster and was pointed down range, significantly before the sight picture was acquired or was being acquired. And my presentation/hits on target were coming much faster than they had been on the morning of Training Day #1
And I suspect other students were doing the same, though I never confirmed that. And neither instructor ever called any student on it. But I understand why they cautioned us to avoid premature deactivation early in our training.
If the shooter is startled and unintentionally takes the weapon off safe his finger is still off the trigger. So we would now be in the same position someone carrying a Glock is, that is our only safety is keeping our finger off the trigger. Tripping or falling doesn't prohibit us from carrying a striker fired gun, it should not prohibit us from assuming an optimal ready position.
I share the same opinion. I still go on top of the safety for every draw. I just think that manipulating safety correctly while keeping up with current crop of good shooters is harder than a lot of people think.
That is something that concerns me and is the reason why I am so hard, at least on myself, about late safety disengagement. We say disengagement on flash sight pic is the right way, then we push for some speed and now somehow flipping it off earlier is not called out. To me this kind of leeway leads to Grebner at times. I am gonna continue to be keeping it off till gun's on target.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
Agree, at the end of the day isn’t a 1911 with the thumb safety off just a Glock at that point?
So...dudes who have done a lot of carrying and shooting of 1911s around a lot of team members don't activate the safety on draw. Anyone can watch video of former Tier 1 dudes (Pat Mac and LAV are the first that come to mind) and watch them move with a 1911 in hand - the safety is on.
Second a 1911 safety off isn't the same as a Glock. Most 1911s are running 4-4.5 pound triggers, a full pound lighter than a Glock. And have a travel distance of less than a 1/4" before the break with 0-degrees of arc movement. A Glock has more of all three and really changes the dynamics.
I laid out clear distinctions about when to disengage on the draw and when not to. Your example of Pat Mac would also say to begin prepping the trigger of your Glock as you're pressing out. Please provide something either showing Pat Mac not disengaging his safety on the draw or dictating not to do that.
Never did I say move around people with the weapon on fire.
If we're talking about sympathetic response the 1lb more of a Glock and 1/4" more travel isn't making a difference.
But again...if your finger is not on the trigger it isn't going to slide down into the trigger guard on its own. Keep your weapon pointed in a safe direction, keep your finger off the trigger, keep the weapon on safe. 3 layers to keep you from negligently discharging into someone.
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