Nuances of running the 1911 thumb safety (thread split)

[Robinson]

That is easy to do when shooting and manipulating safefy at a 10 second El Prez pace, which was Cooper's standard of excellence. These days that standard is half that. Working a gun at that speed while keeping safety engaged until sights are on takes a bit more work.

Keeping the safety engaged until it is out of the holster is not the same as keeping it engaged until the sights are on the target. The 1911 safety can easily be disengaged during the presentation to the target. If drawing to low ready, keep the safety on. If drawing to fire, disengage the safety before full extension is reached -- when the hands come together on the grip or just afterward. At the point the final sight picture is attained the grip is fully firmed up -- the safety should be off before that happens. At least that's how I do it -- it becomes quite natural with repetition.

[YVK]

My point was that when you're going for something like 1.5 second draw on 3x5 out of concealment, which requires aggression in movement and grip acquisition, keeping the safety off is not that easy, regardless when you disengage it after clearing the holster. A ton of people can keep it on till the right moment when working at moderate pace, and then disengage it right in the holster when they try to go fast.

[RevolverRob]

My point was that when you're going for something like 1.5 second draw on 3x5 out of concealment, which requires aggression in movement and grip acquisition, keeping the safety off is not that easy, regardless when you disengage it after clearing the holster. A ton of people can keep it on till the right moment when working at moderate pace, and then disengage it right in the holster when they try to go fast.

This guy ^^^^

He ain't whistling dixie here folks. I've seen (and done) exactly this my own self.

One reason why I modified my initial grip to place the thumb on the back of slide was both for holstering purposes and for drawing under speed. For awhile I tried "only while holstering" and tried to ride the thumb safety coming out of the holster. I found myself clicking the safety off sometimes standing in the holster.

Going thumb on rear of slide and then "rolling" the thumb from the back of the slide to either onto the pedal (drawing to target/shot) or underneath (to ready) helps tremendously with this.

But I'm not really in the 1.5-second draw to 3x5 range. I'm about 1.9 on that with a 1.75 on a real good day.

Hope I don't draw YVK (or about 3/4 of P-F for that matter) in our quick draw dueling contest. I ain't making it out of the first round.

[Gadfly]

I was taught long ago to not come off safe until pointed at the target. But that was shooting PPC/bullseye style as a kid. When I got to the Sheriff’s academy, they were big on thumb on top of safety. During the draw and at low ready, safety on and thumb riding, with trigger finger indexed. As you come up on target and punch out, safety comes off, finger still indexed until ready to fire. Basically if punched out ready to go, safety was off, finger indexed. If you tuck in, or go to low ready, safety came back on.

This was mid 90s.

SIDE NOTE:
we had mixed guns in the SO academy. For the sake of running lines, we were squaded up by pistol action as best they could with the numbers. After a few days of observing us, they tapped squad leaders. I was 1st squad leader with all the 1911/single actions. Squad 2 was TDA (lots of 226 and 92s). Squad 3 and 4 were strikers and DAOs, predominately Glock at that time. That way, each squad could move to the firing line and have the same range commands to go with their guns. (Like, “shooters, scan, decock, and move safely back to the holster”... and “shooters, scan, safety on, and move safely back to the holster.)

I was tasked to take my soup sandwich squad member and work with him on his shooting. He was.... just not cut out for job.

I was starting from the basics, and told him to slowly draw “by the numbers”. He got his master grip, defeated his holster retention (thumb break), drew to low ready. I had him come up on target and squeeze. We did this several times, but something was off. I asked if there was something wrong with his safety, as I was not hearing it click. 100% true, he looked me dead in the eye and said “what safety”....

Turns out, his uncle had loaned him the gun prior to the academy, and he had never shot it in his life. He had no clue how to take it apart or operate it. So this guy had been rolling through all our shooting drills with a cocked and unlocked pistol. Soup Sandwich is a kind term. Lowest common denominator is another term.

Nice guy... he got out of the academy, barely. Like literally a 71... to my knowledge, he was never hired by any agency.

Just thought I would share a 1911 novice story.


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[YVK]

But I'm not really in the 1.5-second draw to 3x5 range. I'm about 1.9 on that with a 1.75 on a real good day.

Me neither, not with a 1911. It is a goal, with every gun. I am consistently slower with 1911 than with any other gun, save for micro guns, both for a single shot draw, and for "2 under 2 seconds" goal. My draw is slower due to thumb safety, because I am preoccupied with not disengaging it too soon and my grip acquisition is more deliberate and slower. My second shot is slower because 195 power factor out of 35 oz gun is a workout for me.

[SW CQB 45]

I have huge hands and my support hand size takes up all the area under the thumb safety when gripping.

I have been riding on top and controlling my thumb safety with the depression as I come up on sights and my muzzle is about square with the target.

We were doing push off drill last week and shooting just over the level three duty holster.

We started slow and increased speed. I could feel the control of the thumb safety as the muzzle rotated away from the holster.

I did not feel slow with a thumb safety 1911 but never sacrificed safety with the speed of that training session.

[JAD]

As a 2011 rookie, I want to try this method. Shooting a 2011 with my thumb on the safety means the web of my hand is crammed into an area that just isn't smooth. At some point during a magazine it registers in my head that its starting to "hurt." I suppose its a distraction.

I wonder if the thumb under the safety will make a difference.

Good thread, thanks!

Just to check that you’re following the way I am: the suggestion is to run the thumb under the safety (with the safety engaged) while not shooting. You’re still going to have your thumb on top of the safety when shooting.

Take a picture and show me where the bad gun is hurting you. There is often a solution.

[SW CQB 45]

As a 2011 rookie, I want to try this method. Shooting a 2011 with my thumb on the safety means the web of my hand is crammed into an area that just isn't smooth. At some point during a magazine it registers in my head that its starting to "hurt." I suppose its a distraction.

I wonder if the thumb under the safety will make a difference.

Good thread, thanks!

I shot a friends Staccato and its not for me in stock set up.

the back of the thumb safety is not contoured and dug into my thin thumb/web area of my right hand to the point of a laceration. if the thumb safety area closest to the grip safety was rounded/blended... that would be the fix.

[rayrevolver]

Just to check that you’re following the way I am: the suggestion is to run the thumb under the safety (with the safety engaged) while not shooting. You’re still going to have your thumb on top of the safety when shooting.

Take a picture and show me where the bad gun is hurting you. There is often a solution.

LOL, man I knew I would catch shit for that post.

But no, I am planning to have my thumb under the safety while firing. Thumb would only ride on the draw stroke.

This rear section just isn't smooth on 2011s, and I think I wedge the web in there while riding the safety. But recoil is light, so I am really unsure why I get that pressure sometimes. Definitely doesn't happen with Glock.

I'm still learning 1911/2011, but riding the safety seemed like the SOP and I have been doing that this past year.

[SW CQB 45]

LOL, man I knew I would catch shit for that post.

But no, I am planning to have my thumb under the safety while firing. Thumb would only ride on the draw stroke.

This rear section just isn't smooth on 2011s, and I think I wedge the web in there while riding the safety. But recoil is light, so I am really unsure why I get that pressure sometimes. Definitely doesn't happen with Glock.

I'm still learning 1911/2011, but riding the safety seemed like the SOP and I have been doing that this past year.

this is the area that will cut me