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Thread: Thumb safety pros/cons (side conversation moved from 320 lawsuit thread)

  1. #41
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Sigs (DA/SA) popularity was the result of a very usable and safe pistol that doesn't have a manual safety. On the other hand the 1911 was a very usable and safe pistol because it had a manual safety that worked very well. Well enough that most carry it in condition 1. Note that it isn't a slide mounted safety.

    There are enough different systems out there that a person can choose the one they want. If you happen to be issued a pistol that you don't like I guess that's just part of the job.

    If I get to choose my carry it will be something without a safety. That leads me to Sig 200 series, LEM or a revolver. Striker would also work but I'm not a fan.

    Regardless of how one shoots themselves it isn't cool. If you need a safety to avoid that then you should probably have one.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  2. #42
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    I dry fired the safety off sequence quite a bit. Before a match, I would do about 10 to 15 reps before starting out for the range with the 1911. Wanted to oil the retrieval pathway in my little ol' noggin. Memory trick. Also, before getting on the line, muscle image the draw. Imagery activates the same memory and motor pathways.

  3. #43
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Thumb safety pros/cons (side conversation moved from 320 lawsuit thread)

    For those of you who don’t go off safety during the draw: is your grip fully formed with safety off, or do you have to adjust grip tension after safety off?
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  4. #44
    The irony of a thumb safety is it benefits skilled shooters more. While less skilled shooters might be able to benefit more from a thumb safety, they are far more likely to screw up use of a safety, making there firearm (temporarily) inert.

    I also find the design of the thumb safety and the type firearm it is on is important. I have no issue with a thumb safety on a 1911 or AR. For my use, I would just as soon remove the thumb safety from my defensive field shotguns. Where I find a thumb safety can be a real gotcha, is when it is poorly designed or on a firearm that comes with or without a thumb safety. As in darn, I have my FS today not a G, or I have the Shield with that little tab referred to by S&W as a thumb safety today.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #45
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    For those of you who don’t go off safety during the draw: is your grip fully formed with safety off, or do you have to adjust grip tension after safety off?
    I'll have to actually focus on this when I do dry practice later. But I've tried to maximize my grip tension with firm palm tension.

    This is, to my mind, the weakness of riding the thumb safety in the off position the thumb lacks the ability to apply a significant amount of lateral pressure to the gun like it would if it were underneath the thumb safety.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    The irony of a thumb safety is it benefits skilled shooters more. While less skilled shooters might be able to benefit more from a thumb safety, they are far more likely to screw up use of a safety, making there firearm (temporarily) inert.

    I also find the design of the thumb safety and the type firearm it is on is important. I have no issue with a thumb safety on a 1911 or AR. For my use, I would just as soon remove the thumb safety from my defensive field shotguns. Where I find a thumb safety can be a real gotcha, is when it is poorly designed or on a firearm that comes with or without a thumb safety. As in darn, I have my FS today not a G, or I have the Shield with that little tab referred to by S&W as a thumb safety today.
    It is definitely a training issue. When I started shooting Limited, it took a while to get used to it. In part it was challenging because I was shooting a CZ TSO at the time. Even with the aftermarket gigantic safety it wasn't really usable because of the very wrong placement of it. With 2011, on the other hand, is super easy and now it's becoming natural. JJ told me during the class that he engages the safety every time he moves. I am training right now to do the same. Obviously, it would be more difficult to do it with CZ.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I know all this has been discussed multiple times before, but it's never a bad idea to revisit central issues like safeties on handguns.


    I don't want to rely on them to be on for safety, and I don't want to rely on them to be off when shooting is a life-safety event. Of course, that's just me--everyone has to make their own choices.
    Yeah, it's the "always-never" problem like in strategic weapons control.

    I still like ToddG's take on safties and decockers.

    When to Safe

    For me, I'm always going to have 1911s. I'm never letting go of my crusty old Delta Elite or my pair of dedicated .22-1191s. I've got my Dad's old .45, and I'm working on a .45/.460 of my own. My first centerfire pistol was a USP that I carried decocked and on-safe. I tend to want thumb safeties just because I'll always have and shoot pistols with them, and I figure that if all my pistols all have thumb safties in about the same location that I can avoid bad habits.

    For me, the thumb safety in its off-state is trapped between the meat of the support hand palm and strong hand thumb. Whenever I break the two hand grip, I duck the strong hand thumb under, on-safe, and get back on top of the safety. With one hand, anytime I'm going to move or dismount the gun from a position of aiming, on-safe.

    I like the thumb safties on the 1911, USP, M&P, P30, and Beretta frame-safety. I dislike thumb safties that are too far down on the frame such as the FNX or the Cominolli/D&L Glock thumb safety. I haven't handled one yet, but the P320 strikes me as probably being a "low on frame" sort of safety. I've made a couple attempts at having the Cominolli/D&L Glock thumb safety modified into something that would work well for me to use. Those guns are off at the 'smith, and I have high hopes for their return.
    Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Where I find a thumb safety can be a real gotcha, is when it is poorly designed or on a firearm that comes with or without a thumb safety. As in darn, I have my FS today not a G, ...
    I think this is why it took so long for Beretta to mainstream the "G" model guns in the US. There were so many users with military time used to the M9/92FS, that they probably thought a "G" model would be a safety concern with the general public.

    On the other hand, I'm surprised the SIG M17 has a manual safety. The manual safety-less striker fired gun has been the standard for so long that most folks of military age, and even most of those at the decision making process level have most likely done most of their personal time shooting with striker fired guns without a manual safety.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by cheby View Post
    JJ told me during the class that he engages the safety every time he moves. I am training right now to do the same. Obviously, it would be more difficult to do it with CZ.
    A sound practice especially off the flat range where uneven terrain may be an issue and holstering up is not a good option.

    So the next logical step with all this is how does the hive mind feel about the safety on the AR? Is it used during movement, reloads, etc or is likely should be or is it taken off and left off during whichever shooting/training string is taking place?

    Pat McNamara calls the AR safety an enabler and not a disabler. He wants the safety engaged pretty much any time the rifle is not actually being fired.

    Shotguns are other matter as GJM states. The 870 safety as sort of usable for a righty. Not so much for a lefty. The 500/590 etc with the tang safety are better in this regard.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  10. #50
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    ...how does the hive mind feel about the safety on the AR? Is it used during movement, reloads, etc or is likely should be or is it taken off and left off during whichever shooting/training string is taking place?

    Pat McNamara calls the AR safety an enabler and not a disabler. He wants the safety engaged pretty much any time the rifle is not actually being fired.
    Safety engaged pretty much any time the rifle is not actually being fired.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

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