It isn't Vang, but the Mossberg 835 UltiMag is also back bored. In fact, it's back bored to the point there is a warning not to use slugs. I want to say it is 10g diameter inside but I can't remember where I read that.
It isn't Vang, but the Mossberg 835 UltiMag is also back bored. In fact, it's back bored to the point there is a warning not to use slugs. I want to say it is 10g diameter inside but I can't remember where I read that.
Last edited by Cory; 03-04-2021 at 07:10 AM.
As for first-hand experience, one in particular stands out. A few years back, John Johnston came to one of our classes with a prototype 'FliteControl Optimized' 14" Vang barrel on a 590 SBS. It patterned obscenely tightly with everything we had, so we walked it back to 50 yards with some of the FC 15-pellet #1 buck loads. He fired two rounds at a Q target, and we counted 27 pellets on the silhouette out of 30.
When I first saw Vang barrels back in the 90s, we were amazed at the ability to repeatedly keep patterns on an IPSC silhouette out to 25-35 yards with whatever buck we had on hand (though the old pre-FliteControl Federal "tactical" buckshot with the plating and buffering seemed to be consistently tighter than other loads when shot through a Vang barrel). Everything else seemed to start losing pellets around the 15-20 yard mark. Pretty much every Vang barrel I've seen come through class has patterned tighter than the non-Vang barrels using non-FliteControl/Versatite loads. The old Vang barrels didn't always play well with FC, but they obviously have figured out how to make them play well nowadays.
Additionally, I think something a lot of folks don't think about is the ability to get a tight pattern out of birdshot loads when training. Sure, FC patterns tight AF out of just about anything, but not everyone can afford to train with it. Having a Vang barrel lets you train with whatever you can afford, and get similar patterns for the most part.
As for pressure testing, what kind of data are you looking for? Burst barrels?
Matt Haught
SYMTAC Consulting LLC
https://sym-tac.com
My opinion is that 12 ga buckshot produces acceptable patterns out to 35 yards. Federal Flite Control low recoil extends this somewhat if cylinder bore is used. Extending and smoothing out the forcing cone will reduce pellet deformation . Premium traditional buckshot with special wads and buffering granules perform better with improved cylinder or modified choke.
One should aim with buckshot and not point as in wing shooting.
The variability in buckshot is still a factor even with the Vang barrels.
The Vang modification was originally tailored to working with Federal's plated "tactical" buckshot that was the go-to prior to Federal licensing the FC wad. Combined with the barrel modifications the patterns ranged from good to outstanding. With other types of buckshot the patterns could be more hit-or-miss...but that is the nature of buckshot. Every barrel has its own favorite flavor, even if the barrel has had work. Generally the patterns would be worse with that particular buckshot if the barrel hasn't had the work done.
Federal's recently introduced split-shot ammo is, as best I can tell, very similar to the old school "tactical" buckshot load Federal produced. I'm going to test some this weekend to see how it fares in different guns.
3/15/2016
Buckshot loads are like .22LR ammo - "you gotta try it in your gun to be sure."
Forcing cone work aside, one of the reasons I did not get my 870's fixed IC barrel reworked for removeable chokes was that I had become convinced that they were "just another thing to go wrong" on a shotgun that would not see anything but defensive use. After all, I would always be able to find the right Federal flite-control shells... right?
That was then. This is now.
gn
"On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."
First, thank you all for your responses! Good stuff.
Second, I inquire as my research shows what you know...the intended and often seen benefit of Vang is very tight patterns...
It makes sense for a tactical tool for throw all pellets where intended, without flyers.
However that tight pattern reduces the overall usefulness of this wonderful thinking man's ballistic power tool!
Confined to that use, Vang shines, but (as noted by some) equal patterns can be had with proper choke and load choice.
My curiosity about pressure data comes from the theory that the "over bore" (Vang or otherwise) lowers pressure.
Nothing I can find supports that, sales speak notwithstanding. Reduced recoil? I don't think so and again nothing
concrete showing that to be the case. I can argue either how it might and how it won't. My thinking is that it
is insignificant at best.
The pressure reduction element was appealing for a particular application I had in mind.
********************
I love my shotguns. I love all that they can do.
Interchangeable choke tubed Shotguns have the ability to use various chokes and loads making them a very versatile tool.
Birdshot, Buckshot, Slugs
If it can fly or crawl, growl, bite or fight, the humble shotgun with the proper selection of choke and load can handle it all! (runs less lethal too!)
Contact to 150 yards the power tool of the our battery is only hampered by being always empty (low capacity)
Anyways...thanks again gents!
Patrick
Guns are just machines and without you they can do no harm, nor any good
I think two questions I have is "is there a point where we make shotgun patterns so tight, we're giving up and advantage?" and "Do interchangeable choke tubes have a place on a defensive shotgun?"
I asked question #1 on another forum, and got a snotty reply that I clearly didn't understand shotguns since I seemed to think you could fill a hallway with a cloud of buckshot.
When I asked #2, I was told chokes would get me killed on the street, so I just didn't go back to that forum.
I would argue that for pool guns that ride around in police cars, interchangeable chokes are a bad idea. I would argue that for my house shotgun, that I have 100% control over, and spends 99% of it's time in my ready service locker, they are a good idea.
I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.
Regarding reduced recoil... and I fully admit that this is completely anecdotal, but I have fired the same buckshot on the same day out of the same gun with different barrels. One was my 14” Vang barrel, one was a standard 18” 870P barrel that I bought at Cabela’s. I could tell a difference in terms of recoil. It was noticeable, to the point that I commented on it in a blog post. I have no real idea how to measure that, but it’s not just sales talk IMHO.
The pressure discussion is interesting. I also tested some really high velocity buckshot from Slapshot that advertised 2800 FPS. Muzzle blast was reminiscent of a short barreled magnum revolver and Vang or not, patterns at any distance beyond 5 yards or so sucked.
At the end of the day, I still appreciate the Vang modification, and will continue to send my guns to Hans as I can afford to.