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Thread: Can't take a life article

  1. #21
    Kathy Jackson makes the point in one of her articles that if someone attacks you, they already made the decision that someone was going to be hurt or killed that day.

    If you are armed, prepared and able, you have a say in who that is.

  2. #22
    Brass Rat Borderland's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/T7-6dIwezSI

    I especially like this movie as there is a character that doesn't want take a life. He demonstrates that by letting a German soldier kill an American soldier in combat. He had full control of the situation and still didn't act. In the end he decides he needs to shoot a smart ass German soldier who calls him a coward.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  3. #23
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    I agree that hunting and growing up on a farm significantly impacts perception of this issue. I was in kindergarten the first time I went hunting with my dad, got my first shotgun in 4th grade, and started shooting squirrels and ducks in fifth grade. About that time, a murderer escaped from custody a few counties over. There was a big manhunt underway that was all over the news. One afternoon during this manhunt, some woman looked out her kitchen window and saw the escapee trying to steal their truck parked in the driveway. She yelled to her teenage son to shoot the guy because she (mistakenly) feared that the escapee had just killed her husband. The kid grabbed a .30-30 and ended the manhunt with a headshot. None of this would have gone down that way in an urban or suburban neighborhood, and I think it helped define "normal" for me in the rural south. When I was in 9th grade, I woke up at 2:00 in the morning with my mom's hand over my mouth and her whispering that someone was trying to get in the front door. My first words after she moved her hand were "hand me the shotgun." The situation resolved when my dad switched on the porch light, but if I'd needed to use the shotgun that night, I feel certain that I had the resolve. To me the issue reduces to personal responsibility. I am responsible for my safety and my family's safety.

  4. #24
    Wannabe Privateer RevolverRob's Avatar
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    I think more of it boils down to whether or not people have had enough life experience to not panic in the face of danger.

    I wasn't exactly the most rough and tumble kid growing up, but I remember a few times where I knew if I panicked, I was going to hurt myself badly or get killed, because I was doing something dumb.

    More than once I've nearly died as an adult. Or more accurately, I was going to end up severely injured if not dead if I panicked.

    If you panic and survive, you'll rationalize away the panic later. "Oh, I didn't react, because I'm a pacifist." No, you didn't react because you panicked and you panicked, because you're a pussy who doesn't do enough shit that scares you and forces you to learn to survive.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen many rock climbers, race car drivers, or deep sea divers hesitate to pull the trigger. They've honed their minds to recognize and respond to the danger stimulus and think out and find a solution to resolve it.

    Personally, the few times where I've made the conscious decision to draw a weapon, I had a very clear understanding of what I committed to. I was presented with a life threatening situation unfolding in front of me and had tool(s) available to pursue what I thought was the best course of action at that time. I've never lost sleep wondering if I could have done what I was ready and committed to do in those moments, before the circumstances changed.
    Seriously guys, are we not doing 'phrasing' anymore?

  5. #25
    IS WHAT PLANTS CRAVE BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I think more of it boils down to whether or not people have had enough life experience to not panic in the face of danger.
    Having talked to many people who elected not to use deadly force, even at risk of their own lives, as well as people who elected to do so leads me to strongly disagree. To the point I'd say the opposite is true. Panicked people decide to use deadly force easier and with less justification. The fear of being drug through the media, criminal and civil court, lack of clarity on their legal ability to use the level of force considered in the current context, all are things that put the brakes on use of deadly force that only concern "human brain" and "monkey brain". Lizard brain does not give a shit about social standing, about legal consequences, etc. The more panicked someone is the more they lose human/monkey and rely on lizard.

    Think of how often the concept of 'fear biting' has come up on the forum in the past. No, pacifism isn't panic disguised in many instances.
    Important rule change regarding political discussion here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....58#post1151858

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  6. #26
    I dont think most people aren't capable of killing.

    I think most people don't have a good grasp on the timing of killing people.

    As an example, how often do people in bad situations always say "any second now it will all turn around ". It's almost a degree of not accepting reality.

    Additionally I think a lot of mystique is thrown at the subject of killing. It's also taboo to many. Grossman is by far the worst thing to ever happen to killing.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I think more of it boils down to whether or not people have had enough life experience to not panic in the face of danger.

    I wasn't exactly the most rough and tumble kid growing up, but I remember a few times where I knew if I panicked, I was going to hurt myself badly or get killed, because I was doing something dumb.

    More than once I've nearly died as an adult. Or more accurately, I was going to end up severely injured if not dead if I panicked.

    If you panic and survive, you'll rationalize away the panic later. "Oh, I didn't react, because I'm a pacifist." No, you didn't react because you panicked and you panicked, because you're a pussy who doesn't do enough shit that scares you and forces you to learn to survive.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen many rock climbers, race car drivers, or deep sea divers hesitate to pull the trigger. They've honed their minds to recognize and respond to the danger stimulus and think out and find a solution to resolve it.

    Personally, the few times where I've made the conscious decision to draw a weapon, I had a very clear understanding of what I committed to. I was presented with a life threatening situation unfolding in front of me and had tool(s) available to pursue what I thought was the best course of action at that time. I've never lost sleep wondering if I could have done what I was ready and committed to do in those moments, before the circumstances changed.
    How many rock climbers, race car drivers, deep sea divers do you know that have killed someone?

    I loosely am in some rock climbing communities. While cool under pressure. Those dudes are like actual pacifist hippie types.

    Eta
    Also....panicked people kill dudes all the time. Maybe not the most efficiently. But they do..

  8. #28
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    I think it’s far more nurture than nature on this one. Locally we have communities where it’s not uncommon for women and teens to kill each other. Why, because in their communities it’s acceptable to solve problems with violence and they’ve seen it their entire lives.

    Also, two hundred years ago upper class Westerners regularly killed each other for sport in duels over things we’re raised today to believe are “not worth a human life”, and public executions were seen as great entertainment. I don’t think the human brain has fundamentally changed in such a short amount of time.

    I also think that just because someone vapor locks during a surprise or stressful violent encounter that doesn’t necessarily mean they are incapable of participating in either mob or group violenc/murder when they aren’t in danger themselves of being killed
    "I don't know if it is a placebo effect or not, but I have a growing feeling of well being that comes directly from my instinctual survival drive deep in my belly center”

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Kathy Jackson makes the point in one of her articles that if someone attacks you, they already made the decision that someone was going to be hurt or killed that day.

    If you are armed, prepared and able, you have a say in who that is.
    This really sums it up for me. The degree to which a violent aggressor "gets hurt" during the course of defending myself, or my love ones is irrelevant.
    Paraphrasing Wyatt Earp: The first shot is twice as important as the second shot, the 2nd shot is twice as important as the 3rd shot, the 3rd shot is twice as important as the 4th shot, the 4th shot is twice as important as the 5th shot…

  10. #30
    Regular guy. Cory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEW8338 View Post
    How many rock climbers, race car drivers, deep sea divers do you know that have killed someone?

    I loosely am in some rock climbing communities. While cool under pressure. Those dudes are like actual pacifist hippie types.

    Eta
    Also....panicked people kill dudes all the time. Maybe not the most efficiently. But they do..
    I think sweeping generalizations are kind of bad when they don't have caveats. Declarative statments are seldom absolutes.

    I've met at least 2 rock climbers who shoot USPSA. One has shot someone in the chest with a shotun, albeit LTL I think. The other has deployed a weapon and the need to use it disappeared. Both are better shooters than I, and both have taken some other defensive classes as well.

    They may be somewhat different than me politically, but they are not hippies, and are not pacifists. They're solid folks.

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