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Thread: Can't take a life article

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    I think sweeping generalizations are kind of bad when they don't have caveats. Declarative statments are seldom absolutes.

    I've met at least 2 rock climbers who shoot USPSA. One has shot someone in the chest with a shotun, albeit LTL I think. The other has deployed a weapon and the need to use it disappeared. Both are better shooters than I, and both have taken some other defensive classes as well.

    They may be somewhat different than me politically, but they are not hippies, and are not pacifists. They're solid folks.
    I've been climbing all over the place since 2006. To find a climber that's a shooter, unless he's mil, is a rarity.

    You met the exception not the norm

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by KEW8338 View Post
    I've been climbing all over the place since 2006. To find a climber that's a shooter, unless he's mil, is a rarity.

    You met the exception not the norm
    The fact remains that generalizations are best when they are made clear as generalizations.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    The fact remains that generalizations are best when they are made clear as generalizations.
    Usually.
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    Usually.
    Touché.
    Last edited by Cory; 03-01-2021 at 05:47 PM.

  5. #35
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    I was involved in a fatal OIS three months before I retired from full-time LE work (a little over two years ago). One thing that probably helped my psyche was that the guy was genuine POS...so much so that his family not only didn't sue me/the agency civily, they sent an apology and prayers to me through the investigator handling the OIS investigation.

    I was sent to the mandatory evaluation with the contracted shrink...and I just knew that he'd probably milk the State for a half-dozen sessions or so. Our first meeting he asked a few questions, then asked how I was dealing with the situation internally. "Well, the way I look at it...he was a shitbag doing his job, and I was doing my job. And I was better at my job than he was at his." His response? "Sounds like you've processed it pretty well...I don't see a need for you to come back."

    Another situation that really helped me to process and deal with taking or seeing another life get taken (justifiably) happened about three years into my career. A lone State Trooper had been in pursuit of an escaped convict in a stolen van for @ 50 miles without assistance and was entering our jurisdiction. Several of our units entered the pursuit, and very shortly thereafter the suspect crashed, overturned and became entrapped in the now-burning vehicle. The van became engulfed so fast, that all we could do was watch...and hear the Banshee-like screams...of the bad guy burn alive. I remember the Trooper was ghost-white, as he was a rookie and it was one of his first pursuits. After we got off evening shift that night...our squad, along with our Shift Sgt., each bought a six-pack and drank them in the SallyPort. The words my Sgt. said to us during that decompression session always stuck with me..."He chose his time and place of where and how he was going to die."

    Back to my pursuit/shooting...

    By now, I was also a State Trooper (transferred to the State as an investigator after 14 years with the City...then did my last 4 years in Highway Patrol). My Corporal got tasked with driving from the scene back the Post to await an ET to take photos of me. He began talking to me and feeling me out as to my mental state. I began relating to him the story of that pursuit long ago with the rookie Trooper (that I never got to talk to afterward to see how he fared) and the words that my Sgt. told me that made me realize from that night on that the suspect bears the weight of responsibility, and how he chooses life...or death.

    My Corporal looked at me, grabbed me by the shoulder as I sat in the passenger seat and said, "I was that Trooper that night..."
    Last edited by kwb377; 03-01-2021 at 05:59 PM.

  6. #36
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    @kwb377, that was a meaty-ass post, right there. Lots to ponder.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by KEW8338 View Post

    As an example, how often do people in bad situations always say "any second now it will all turn around ". It's almost a degree of not accepting reality.
    I have seen this. Some people lose fights because they don't accept they are in fights.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Edster View Post
    I have seen this. Some people lose fights because they don't accept they are in fights.
    Extremely common. Denial is real, and all sorts of people think "this can't be happening to me" when it hits the fan.

    I've posted this before, but a few years ago, I attended a presentation given by the narcotics sergeant that led the effort to track down the two terrorists from the San Bernardino attack. He brought along two survivors from the attack, who spoke as well. It was extremely interesting (and heartbreaking). According to one of the survivors, while the attack was happening-- gunshots are being fired, people are on the ground dead or dying-- a co-worker was walking around telling everyone it was just a drill. Total denial.

  9. #39
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    Extremely common. Denial is real, and all sorts of people think "this can't be happening to me" when it hits the fan.

    I've posted this before, but a few years ago, I attended a presentation given by the narcotics sergeant that led the effort to track down the two terrorists from the San Bernardino attack. He brought along two survivors from the attack, who spoke as well. It was extremely interesting (and heartbreaking). According to one of the survivors, while the attack was happening-- gunshots are being fired, people are on the ground dead or dying-- a co-worker was walking around telling everyone it was just a drill. Total denial.
    This makes me miss William April. He really had a grip on this phenomenon.

    Humorously, I was thinking of him big time when I found myself trying to push .38 special rounds into a 9mm Speed-Six, in chimp-like fashion, that I bought the other day. I simply had no place in my brain for the gun not being a .357, since that’s what the tag on it had said.

    A good reminder that reality is non-negotiable; the fact that 4 people—3 sales guys and myself—were all convinced of a thing did not change the fact that I could have stood there in denial all afternoon, and still never succeeded in chambering a .38 round.

    Reality is what is, and non-negotiable. Steve Ryan wrote that in one of his books on sharps, IIRC.

    People are quite funny about reality, and the best of us are, at best, aware of that fact.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  10. #40
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    This makes me miss William April. He really had a grip on this phenomenon.

    Humorously, I was thinking of him big time when I found myself trying to push .38 special rounds into a 9mm Speed-Six, in chimp-like fashion, that I bought the other day. I simply had no place in my brain for the gun not being a .357, since that’s what the tag on it had said.

    A good reminder that reality is non-negotiable; the fact that 4 people—3 sales guys and myself—were all convinced of a thing did not change the fact that I could have stood there in denial all afternoon, and still never succeeded in chambering a .38 round.

    Reality is what is, and non-negotiable. Steve Ryan wrote that in one of his books on sharps, IIRC.

    People are quite funny about reality, and the best of us are, at best, aware of that fact.
    I miss Dr. Aprill for his measured response and thinking in many respects.

    But dude, 9mm Speed Six is the heat. You know where to find me if you decide you need to part with it.

    ___

    This brings up a great point though, reality differs from perspective. For me, my perspective is, it seems impossible that there is reality where people are incapable of taking another human life when justified in doing so to preserve their lives or those of family member. I really cannot fathom how someone, who isn't physically incapable of it, could fail to act. Yet I know that reality says that is true.

    Still, I have an extremely hard time wrapping my head around it.

    I really do not know what makes a human incapable of taking another life in defense of their own or their pack. Because humans are animals we have survival instincts that should supersede sociocultural constructs and drive us to fight or flight. Or to fight to flight. It's so deep, there are literally no animals I'm aware of that lack these core instincts. Which means those instincts are ~1.5-2 billion years old. They're fundamental to the whole game of life, of living; survive and pass on genes to the next generation.

    When I've seen people fail to act, it always seems to be a vapor locked moment. They are frozen, unsure if to act. I have always attribute this to some portion of their survival instincts have been dulled too much. I do draw a distinction between not acting and doing something poorly. Doing something poorly is a direct result of preparation (or lack thereof - Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance), but it's still acting.

    Doing nothing, denying it - I can't fathom it.

    I've always had the mindset of, "Act know, freak out (if necessary) later."

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