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Thread: IL Governor Signs "Anti-Police Bill" into Law

  1. #11
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    The great thing about mass institutionalized historical ignorance is that it lets stupid ideas with long histories of utter failure get implemented, because most people don't know it didn't work the first time.
    History will inevitably repeat itself. Just seems like the cycle is becoming shorter. Maybe because people don't read as much as they used to. Or maybe what they read they don't believe, or both.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  2. #12
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    History will inevitably repeat itself. Just seems like the cycle is becoming shorter. Maybe because people don't read as much as they used to. Or maybe what they read they don't believe, or both.
    Or read at all, for a lot of them. Then, there's the problem of Affluenza- the idiotic idea held by the Privileged that their prosperity is due to some kind of benign natural process that will continue no matter what. They don't know about or care about the generations of hard work that got them there, or that hard work is still needed to keep things going- like actual enforcement of laws. So, the dimwits tinker with the machinery, ignore the Gods of the Copybook Headings, and the result is Hard Times & Bad Luck.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  3. #13
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    Could the “no taser in the back” have been meant to be a prohibition against the drive stun, which doesn’t produce neuro-muscular incapacitation? A drive stun might create pain compliance, but in my (very limited) experience just caused the suspect to fight harder.

    Of course, if you shooters somebody in the back with a taser and get good contact with both probes, the suspect’s muscles lock up and he/she falls forward on their face with no way to break their fall, which could result in injury.

    Gotta suspect the motives of any ejected representative who is involved in passing a complicated and lengthy piece of legislation in the middle of the night with no time for prr Er pole to review the measure and little debate.

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Remember when Taser was “causing cardiac arrest”? We changed our primary target to the back as opposed to the chest. Taser shots to the chest were discouraged. Of course none of the legislators who wrote the law has any idea about that. I like hitting the back because the muscles lock up so well. My favorite target was lower back/upper thigh. Back and hips muscles lock up really nice.
    Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.

  5. #15
    Member jd950's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff22 View Post
    Could the “no taser in the back” have been meant to be a prohibition against the drive stun, which doesn’t produce neuro-muscular incapacitation?
    I doubt it. I have seen the drive stun issue raised elsewhere specifically as its own issue. The politicians and activist groups share information, draft proposals, talking points, etc., ...there is a noticeable consistency in arguments and proposals across the county, although they get implemented differently.

    "Back tasing" people is apparently its own issue, or perhaps just an incremental way to render the taser useless, which I have mixed feelings about anyway.

  6. #16
    Member jd950's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97 View Post
    My favorite target was lower back/upper thigh. Back and hips muscles lock up really nice.
    Stay out of Illinois, brother.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd950 View Post
    Stay out of Illinois, brother.
    I’m retired without a Taser or plans to visit Illinois
    Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    No Taser usage in the back? Is this some Old West honor code thing or just idiots not knowing how a Taser works and best practices writing law? (rhetorical)
    Sadly, you're correct on both accounts. Too many get really spun up over any perceived use of force from behind, likely over the hollyweird depiction of the West. Those same folks can't process shots, hits from the side that strike the back, posterior. And, they are - at the least - willfully ignorant of the "why" behind Taser best practices; although, I'd be fine if as a profession we dumped Tasers and returned to batons & OC - largely due to Bryan v McPherson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    You know what I’ve never seen in any mainstream story or article on police UoF reform, despite myriad examples from the second half of last year?

    An appearance by an SME or active police trainer. No certified instructors of LVNR in any story on “chokeholds,” etc.

    That’s like having an entire year of mainstream splash page COVID stories, and never quoting an infectious disease specialist. It’s comically absurd.

    Folks are encouraged to change my mind, but I’m not going to hold my breath while waiting for a counter-example.
    Every now & then, you'll see a reporter who asks for, gets a response from an SME or RKI. It sure seems rare though. Even then, the SME/RKI won't get repeat play as the haters will. If one reads academic stuff on the use of force, you'll come across Geoffrey Alpert pretty quick. He's on the faculty at the Univ of South Carolina. I can think of one OIS in which he opined fairly early. The article quoted him going through the known facts and Alpert's opinion that based on them the shooting was objectively reasonable. He was never referred to again by that paper, those reporters.

    I don't believe you will see any serious efforts to get the L/E perspective on these events into the media. It is why agencies and employee associations have to hit the community education aspect HARD before they have a use of force that's portrayed as "controversial."

  9. #19
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Every now & then, you'll see a reporter who asks for, gets a response from an SME or RKI. It sure seems rare though. Even then, the SME/RKI won't get repeat play as the haters will. If one reads academic stuff on the use of force, you'll come across Geoffrey Alpert pretty quick. He's on the faculty at the Univ of South Carolina. I can think of one OIS in which he opined fairly early. The article quoted him going through the known facts and Alpert's opinion that based on them the shooting was objectively reasonable. He was never referred to again by that paper, those reporters.

    I don't believe you will see any serious efforts to get the L/E perspective on these events into the media. It is why agencies and employee associations have to hit the community education aspect HARD before they have a use of force that's portrayed as "controversial."
    I absolutely believe you. And I understand, roughly, the affecting reasons. I’m just saying that the whole situation is ludicrous, and wrong, like 2 monkeys on one football.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  10. #20
    One word, Chicago.

    A lot of this bill is the reflection of misbehavior in the Second City, not all of it by the boys in blue. Whether the drunk police superintendent’s missing traffic stop video, the subway platform shooting or the blue wall of silence myth around another OIS on camera, an entire state’s worth of officers get thrown under the bus.

    That is how it goes in Illinois. The good news is two governors in a row haven’t gone to prison. The last felon in chief was pardoned by Trump, so that one is now an asterisk of sorts.

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