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Thread: Barrel/slide length in relation to recoil characteristics

  1. #1

    Barrel/slide length in relation to recoil characteristics

    Trying to wrap my head around something here and I'm hoping some of those more experienced than me can make some sense of this concept physics-wise.

    Conventional wisdom that I have observed though my years of shooting was that longer barrel length = less recoil, faster followup shots.

    Recently a couple of experiences have got me thinking:

    I ran a Glock 45 in a high round count red dot class recently that is a new purchase and was surprised to find that it tracked much flatter than the G17 I typically shoot.
    The majority of the best shooters in the class were also running 4-inch or so slides on their RDS equipped guns.
    I borrowed a 34 slide for my 17 and found that again it tracked slower and shot less flat than my G45.

    I am thinking maybe the reduced slide mass from a shorter barreled/slide gun results in less felt recoil and faster cycling time back on target.
    I haven't had the chance to shoot on a timer and record the difference in my splits but I have a strong suspicion that it will be much faster with a shorter slide.

    That being said, why is it that some guns with shorter slides such as the commander/officer sized 1911's have a reputation for being snappier and more recoiling than a 5 inch government gun?

    It appears to me that the sweet spot in performance is somewhere around the M&P fullsize gun Glock 45 dimension with the longer grip providing more leverage and the shorter slide providing faster cycling.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    I always perceived a 19 length slide tracked flatter than a 17 or 34 length slide with a dot, but my match placement was consistently better with a 34 length slide. My 4.25 2.0 CORE also feels flatter than my 5 inch CORE pistols, but my time on arrays is better with the five inch slide. Other competitors also gravitate towards longer slide lengths in CO.

    A shorter slide may be easier to carry, but in competition what folks care about is minutia of score. (Perhaps C Class for Life might weigh in on his experiences with the 26 versus longer pistols.) My takeaway is that feel can be misleading.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #3
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    I believe that Ernest Langdon spoke to this in the context of the 92a1 being flatter shooting that the Brigadier. If I am remembering correctly he stated that this was due to the greater mass of the beefed up Brig slide. FWIW, the G45 tracks flatter in recoil than the G17 for me too.
    "Knowledge is good." Emil Faber, date unknown.

  4. #4
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    It's more than just the slide. I was shooting a P320 full size in IDPA but I used my P320 carry for a qualifyer and had my best score ever. I experimented with my 320 in full size, carry and compact and I always did best with the carry (same size configuration as your G45).

  5. #5
    My experience shooting irons is basically the following with similar frames:
    1. Less slide mass moving equals flatter recoil cycle
    2. More slide mass equals more movement but gentler impulse
    3. The difference in recoil characteristics is usually negated by improved accuracy with longer sight radius (my ability to align the sights adequately at speed)
    4. Longer sight radius provides better feedback in training to drive improvement.

    My experience with RDS is limited on pistols and I do not know how this translates if at all.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sickeness View Post
    Trying to wrap my head around something here and I'm hoping some of those more experienced than me can make some sense of this concept physics-wise.

    Conventional wisdom that I have observed though my years of shooting was that longer barrel length = less recoil, faster followup shots.

    Recently a couple of experiences have got me thinking:

    I ran a Glock 45 in a high round count red dot class recently that is a new purchase and was surprised to find that it tracked much flatter than the G17 I typically shoot.
    The majority of the best shooters in the class were also running 4-inch or so slides on their RDS equipped guns.
    I borrowed a 34 slide for my 17 and found that again it tracked slower and shot less flat than my G45.

    I am thinking maybe the reduced slide mass from a shorter barreled/slide gun results in less felt recoil and faster cycling time back on target.
    I haven't had the chance to shoot on a timer and record the difference in my splits but I have a strong suspicion that it will be much faster with a shorter slide.

    That being said, why is it that some guns with shorter slides such as the commander/officer sized 1911's have a reputation for being snappier and more recoiling than a 5 inch government gun?

    It appears to me that the sweet spot in performance is somewhere around the M&P fullsize gun Glock 45 dimension with the longer grip providing more leverage and the shorter slide providing faster cycling.

    Thoughts?
    Curious, Were all the versions equipped with a dot? If so were you able to track the dot better on the shorter slides than longer slides? As in all the way through recoil in the window or did the dot leave the window for a shorter amount of time perceived? Also to be clear are you referring to muzzle flip or perceived recoil? It sounds like it is muzzle flip not the recoil impulse into the hand(s) that is being noticed.

    Obviously a timer will clarify but recoil to me is felt where muzzle flip/rise is seen and more clearly measured. I don't have my logbook handy but I noticed the same thing when shooting my Glock 48 and 43X back to back that the 43X recovered faster shot to shot. I was surprised and I believe the times were faster too. This may be a good comparison or not because the RSA is the same for each. I thought a longer RSA would help smooth out the impulse on the 48 but who knows.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sickeness View Post
    Trying to wrap my head around something here and I'm hoping some of those more experienced than me can make some sense of this concept physics-wise.

    I haven't had the chance to shoot on a timer and record the difference in my splits but I have a strong suspicion that it will be much faster with a shorter slide.

    Thoughts?

    You answered your own question.

    I haven’t seen any single person who is as fast as they think they are with a 19X or 45.

  8. #8
    I feel like I shoot the CZ 75 PCR and Compact better than my SP01, and I shoot the P07 better than the P09. So I feel like I shoot compacts better than full size. Or at least it feels better - I've never run a timer so I could be wrong.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Each time I dissect it and with limited exception, G45/19X/43X show quantifiably better results in times and dispersion than their larger counterparts. There's also a trend that G45s are replacing G17s.
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  10. #10
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    Put it on a timer, and run the throttle on a bill drill several times, compared to a 17 or 34. I found the 34 to be too sluggish and I was waiting, and the 45 felt harsher, with the 17 splitting the difference and mimicking the recoil impulse of my VP9 much better.

    I've discovered that generally speaking, the more linear travel a slide has before fully unlocking, the more gentle it shoots. To achieve the same 'feel' with a faster unlocking barrel, I want a slightly heavier slide.



    The rational for me was to stick with the best analog to my normal carry gun if I have to shoot a different gun (IE - I'm not running RDS pistol in a run n gun course with creek crossings and low crawl through mud).

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