Barrel/slide length in relation to recoil characteristics

[Clusterfrack]

Do you subscribe to Hwansik's deal on three different visual confirmation types?

Yes, except there are 4 for irons.

[YVK]

Obvious reason for question was that if you shoot with minimal confirmation of his, one flash sight pic for two presses the way I understand it, I find that not being in tune with my gun timing leads anywhere from a lucky miss to a real miss.

[Clusterfrack]

Obvious reason for question was that if you shoot with minimal confirmation of his, one flash sight pic for two presses the way I understand it, I find that not being in tune with my gun timing leads anywhere from a lucky miss to a real miss.

Sorry, I might not have been clear. Obviously guns have cyclic dynamics that could be called timing. I don’t agree that precise tuning makes a difference or is even possible for most guns. When we shoot predictively, we are timing the recoil. But most of the timing is human, and for example changing wrist tension makes way more difference than changing a recoil spring or slide weight.

Note: I don’t shoot Open.

[YVK]

Got it, I agree.

My idea of knowing the timing is being reasonable certain where my second shot lands if I am shooting as fast as I can while maintaining a proper grip.

[cheby]

Got it, I agree.

My idea of knowing the timing is being reasonable certain where my second shot lands if I am shooting as fast as I can while maintaining a proper grip.

It is certainly possible and this is a difference between top shooters and average guys. When switching between guns there are two things that need to be addressed: 1. Grip angle (Not really significant) 2. Recoil timing (very important).
Different gear such as compensator helps obviously. Shooting major vs minor is also very different.

[Sig_Fiend]

I’m not sure Matt Burkett’s take on this is representative of the “state of the field” in practical shooting. I used to think precise “timing” of the gun was a thing. I don’t find that idea useful anymore.

I wasn't talking about modding a gun to adjust the "timing" of anything. That may be of value for top level shooters, but probably not the average shooter.

The focus of the timing drills, IMO, is shooting fast while experimenting with variations in grip pressure, stance, upper body position, wrist rotation, etc. Push it to the limit and over the edge to figure out extreme ends of the spectrum as well as how manipulating different fundamentals affects that spectrum. Then they'll get used to applying the proper resistance and muscle tension to achieve good follow through. Visual confirmation is of course an important component of that.

I liken the concept of timing drills (at least my take on their intent) to learning performance driving on a track or skidpad. The purpose is to push yourself out of control, under controlled conditions, so you can figure out your own boundaries and deficiencies and work on those.

[octagon]

It is certainly possible and this is a difference between top shooters and average guys. When switching between guns there are two things that need to be addressed: 1. Grip angle (Not really significant) 2. Recoil timing (very important).
Different gear such as compensator helps obviously. Shooting major vs minor is also very different.

Good points. One thing I may have missed in the thread is bore axis. Now it may not matter a huge amount when comparing say a CZ and 1911 to each other or maybe a Sig 320 to a Glock but when comparing a 1911 to a Laugo Alien the difference is more significant in terms of distances. Slide weight may be different enough to also be figured in even though both are similar in length.

[RevolverRob]

I wasn't talking about modding a gun to adjust the "timing" of anything. That may be of value for top level shooters, but probably not the average shooter.

The focus of the timing drills, IMO, is shooting fast while experimenting with variations in grip pressure, stance, upper body position, wrist rotation, etc. Push it to the limit and over the edge to figure out extreme ends of the spectrum as well as how manipulating different fundamentals affects that spectrum. Then they'll get used to applying the proper resistance and muscle tension to achieve good follow through. Visual confirmation is of course an important component of that.

I liken the concept of timing drills (at least my take on their intent) to learning performance driving on a track or skidpad. The purpose is to push yourself out of control, under controlled conditions, so you can figure out your own boundaries and deficiencies and work on those.

Do you/we have a list of "timing" drills that are liked?

Definitely want to work them in.

[Archer1440]

Soooo, tangentially back on topic of slide and barrel length...

I did a bunch of scored Bill Drills this past Thursday, involving standard VP9, VP9 with PMM compensator, and VP9L. All with RMR’s, stock triggers, and 124 NATO spec Win white box ammo, so the only variables are the top ends.

The average of 5 Bill Drills with the long slide measured 2.24 down zero, with the comp 2.41, down two, and the standard VP9 averaged 2.44, down zero.

I followed this up with single shot headshot drills at 25 yards on Gunsite option targets.

Interestingly, on 25 yard single-shot headshot drills, I tend to shoot consistently high with the compensated pistol- I had a 2.5” group of 6 rounds 2” above the head box at 12 o’clock, while the other pistols were right in the scoring box in the same par times (par at 2.0, shots at ~1.4-1.7 sec from low ready).

It’s intensely annoying (as in making me utter foul words, audibly) but consistent, and I would love to figure out why. Video was of no help. Re-checked zeroes on all the pistols and they were all dead on.

[Clusterfrack]

Do you/we have a list of "timing" drills that are liked?

Definitely want to work them in.

I do the Doubles drill regularly. You shoot pairs of shots as fast as you can, and analyze why patterns happen.