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Thread: RFI on GoRuck

  1. #21
    Unreconstructed Moylan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 43Under View Post
    IF you can make it to Alliance, I would HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend this course:

    https://www.defensiveelements.com/pr...un-4zbjj-tf8sn

    They also offer it at MTAC in Indiana.

    I took it last summer. See here:

    https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress...h-08-22-23-20/

    I drove out with one of my mentors, who also mentors these guys. The guy in question helped develop their POI. FWIW, he's a multi-winner of the National Tactical Invitational. And he described it as the best scenario-based training he has seen since NTI, and every bit the equivalent of anything he did with .gov (and his resume there is INSANE).

    Feel free to hit me here or via PM if you have any questions.

    Also, of the other courses you mentioned, I also did VCQB (also at Alliance). Very good. Also did shoothouse at Alliance with Joe Weyer and the above PracTac guys. VERY good.

    I did one class with Jason Kelly, just last year, which was very good, I thought. Also have trained with Chuck Haggard for pepper spray and low-light tactics, and also would highly recommend Tim Chandler and/or Ashton Ray for Shotgun work. AARs are on my blog I linked to above. Have fun!
    I think it was your blog that introduced me to Jason Kelly, who it turns out is teaching regularly now at a range about 2 1/2 hrs from me, so I have very high hopes of actually making it to one of his classes within a year or so. I've been reading your AAR's for quite awhile now and I find them extremely helpful! Thanks for all that work you've done. And many thanks for this helpful reply! In fact, I read your review of the Who Are You class and I'd love to do that one if I can. None of the offerings this year work for me, though. I expect my eventual shogun class with be with Tim Chandler for multiple reasons, including the fact that Culpeper is pretty accessible for me--about 4 hrs drive. I almost thought I'd fit one of his classes in this year, but it's not going to work. Anyway, shotguns are low priority for me because I don't really have one in any kind of home defense plan or what have you. It's more just that I recognize it as a major deficiency. I've never had any instruction on shotgun at all and I'm curious. As to medical--I've been first aid and CPR certified on and off since something like 1985, and although I'm not certified right now I actually stay current through my RN wife who explains all the changes to me every year after her re-cert classes. But I am planning to get certified again mainly because I've never been AED certified. Although I did sit in on a first aid class for boy scouts taught by a doctor a year or two ago, and he explained the AED thing...sounds....well, kind of obvious. I was lifeguard certified back in the late 80's and IIRC we had to do some kind of extended CPR thing, and you're right. It's incredibly tiring, even for a teenager in decent shape.

    Outstanding to hear you saved your wife's life! That's pretty amazing.

    Anyway, thanks again!
    The chief mark of the Declaration of Independence is the theory of equality. It is the pure classic conception that no man must aspire to be anything more than a citizen, and that no man should endure to be anything less.
    --GK Chesterton

  2. #22
    Unreconstructed Moylan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    I've always though GoRuck was cultish and kinda weird. Even their packs look weird to me.

    That aside, at a recent Bill Rapier class, the guy next to me on the line had attended a GoRuck class. It was his only other training and he'd enjoyed it. However said guy was a bit of a soup sandwich - poor muzzle control and Bill had to remind him to decock his DASA pistol before holstering. If his gun handling skills were any indication of what he learned (or didn't learn) at GoRuck, I'd give it a pass.

    As far as protecting your family, the MUC portion of ECQC is gold. You also might consider prioritizing the medical stuff. First aid, CPR, and stop the bleed classes are easy to find and cheap. TCCC is cool too, but is oriented to serious trauma injuries.

    A couple of additional self protection resources I've found useful:

    The Gift of Fear - Gavin de Becker. A must read .

    Left of Bang - pretty good info.

    Sentinel - become the agent in charge of your own protection detail - Pat Mac. Short but some good tips.

    As always, YMMV. Good luck.
    Thanks for the suggestions! I've read the books, mostly. I did not finish left of bang. I can't recall why. It seems to me like it appeared too specific to combat troops? (I mean, that makes sense!) But I don't really remember. I should try it again. Given my proclivities, my weakness when it comes to 'training' is spending far too much time and energy reading about it and far too little time and energy actually doing it. I'm trying to address that imbalance. Not that the reading isn't important. Just that I've been too much in my head about this stuff for too many years, and I've found as I actually get more involved in real training that the intellectual knowledge (such as it is) doesn't make its way down into my body when I need to actually do stuff under pressure!
    The chief mark of the Declaration of Independence is the theory of equality. It is the pure classic conception that no man must aspire to be anything more than a citizen, and that no man should endure to be anything less.
    --GK Chesterton

  3. #23
    Unreconstructed Moylan's Avatar
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    This class will be a partnered class as 2 man CQB is the launching pad for all team based or solo CQB.
    https://www.defensiveelements.com/pr...ructures-fz64x

    Why is 2 man CQB the launching pad for solo CQB? I have done a couple of classes on "home defense" which were basically solo CQB classes. One was with a local trainer, and one was with TRC (formerly Tiger Swan), taught by an obviously very experienced swat-type cop. I have focused on solo stuff because if I ever do any such stuff in real life, it will be solo. I don't have a team, not of this sort, anyway. Am I thinking about this wrong? Do I need a team-based CQB class? Obviously, as the pieing thread shows, this is controversial territory, so there's probably not just one "correct" answer that the experts all agree on. But still.
    The chief mark of the Declaration of Independence is the theory of equality. It is the pure classic conception that no man must aspire to be anything more than a citizen, and that no man should endure to be anything less.
    --GK Chesterton

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions! I've read the books, mostly. I did not finish left of bang. I can't recall why. It seems to me like it appeared too specific to combat troops? (I mean, that makes sense!) But I don't really remember. I should try it again. Given my proclivities, my weakness when it comes to 'training' is spending far too much time and energy reading about it and far too little time and energy actually doing it. I'm trying to address that imbalance. Not that the reading isn't important. Just that I've been too much in my head about this stuff for too many years, and I've found as I actually get more involved in real training that the intellectual knowledge (such as it is) doesn't make its way down into my body when I need to actually do stuff under pressure!

    Sounds like you're ahead of the curve on the reading and intellectual side of things. That's great. Good luck as you work on the physical skill sets.

  5. #25
    @Moylan Got this class info today from Southern Exposure in central Florida:

    Protective Agents (March 15-16) $295 This class is taught by Steve Tarani.
    To register for Tarani classes please contact Irv Lehman directly: bigsfish@bellsouth.net
    This is based on training provided to professional protective details such as U.S. Secret Service.
    So, you say, “I’m not protecting the President. Why would I need that?”
    Well, you ARE the only protective force for your family. These principles apply, no matter WHO is being protected and there is more to it than meets the eye.

    There are still spaces available in the classes but time to respond is short.
    If interested please contact Irv Lehman directly at bigsfish@bellsouth.net or Steve Tarani at steve.tarani@gmail.com

  6. #26
    Unreconstructed Moylan's Avatar
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    Thanks!
    The chief mark of the Declaration of Independence is the theory of equality. It is the pure classic conception that no man must aspire to be anything more than a citizen, and that no man should endure to be anything less.
    --GK Chesterton

  7. #27

    2 man CQB Launching Pad

    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    https://www.defensiveelements.com/pr...ructures-fz64x

    Why is 2 man CQB the launching pad for solo CQB? I have done a couple of classes on "home defense" which were basically solo CQB classes. One was with a local trainer, and one was with TRC (formerly Tiger Swan), taught by an obviously very experienced swat-type cop. I have focused on solo stuff because if I ever do any such stuff in real life, it will be solo. I don't have a team, not of this sort, anyway. Am I thinking about this wrong? Do I need a team-based CQB class? Obviously, as the pieing thread shows, this is controversial territory, so there's probably not just one "correct" answer that the experts all agree on. But still.

    Hey Moylan,

    This is Nick from DE and that is a great question. Let me give you my answer to that question. From a Fundamental CQB standpoint, 2 man is foundation for all CQB as even in teams, 2 man does a lot (rooms, dead space, hallways, etc), so it translates very well going from 2 man to 4,12,16,84,128…whatever teams number is being used.


    In regards to one man work: Myself, I started out my training doing Solo CQB classes and then doing 2man and then team stuff, there are many advantages to starting out in 2 man, then teams, then solo. Let me give you my perspective not just as an instructor, but also a student.

    Starting off in 2 man reduces the cognitive load as you are only doing half the work. This allows you to focus on learning CQB procedures (that then can be used in one man like an example is a threat door.)
    Along the cognitive route, this also starts introducing you to having to work around other people, spacial awareness, communication, muzzle management and many key components to CQB. While it might just ME in a structures situation, for most people, there will be others with us OR in the environment. 2 man is a great introduction to that.
    The most important thing personally I feel from starting at 2 man level is how then to attack multiple angles of exposure. Imagine taking a hallway(s) or a big room with 7 open and closed doors. One man, that is a tough elephant to eat. Working in two man that gives another angle of attack, we can start to identify and attack all the angles of exposure we have in a methodology that helps making eating the elephant one bite at a time more efficient. Translate that to one man and we can now identify angles of exposure better, and start to employ procedures even in one man that will make one man more efficient (or at least the best it can be). Long story short, it helps understand the biggest (or priority) angles of exposure, so then we know where to be employing our one angle of a attack, and how we can “stack” those angles of exposure (for a lack of a better term) to better utilize our one angle of attack. Also on how we can clean up a space and exposing ourself to the minimal amount to a compound angle of exposure (for example).

    As you can tell by my response, there is a lot to this in my opinion. I view it as instead of throwing all the problems on one person initially to learn CQB, we do it in a methodology that starts out less in regards to the problems we have, gives us procedures that we can employ in CQB, and then as we progress to one man, all we have to do is change the question we are using a bit to answer the problem, but it works in one man, two man, or teams.

    Hope this helps answer your question. Best of luck in future training! - Nick

  8. #28
    Unreconstructed Moylan's Avatar
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    Yes, that's very informative. Thank you!
    The chief mark of the Declaration of Independence is the theory of equality. It is the pure classic conception that no man must aspire to be anything more than a citizen, and that no man should endure to be anything less.
    --GK Chesterton

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