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Thread: Long shot, but P-F often delivers: “Civilian” hex screw sizing?

  1. #11
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    The #6 torx is so fine it looks like standard hex. I have a micro screwdriver set from Home depot with the small torx in it. I recently replaced a clip on a friends Delica, and the screws and replacement screws were #6. If you smash another hex wrench in there ( as he did, incidently ) you will round out the head, and no wrench will work. You will have to get replacements. I don't believe, and call me crazy if you must, that Spyderco would use different size screws for clip attachment from model to model when they are all 3 screw designs.

    I ended up using a small pair of channel locks to grab the side of the dome screw head and remove them. The replacements were factory along with the clip. #6 spun them in with blue loc-tite

    Have fun stormin' the castle!
    -Miracle Max

  2. #12
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
    The #6 torx is so fine it looks like standard hex. I have a micro screwdriver set from Home depot with the small torx in it. I recently replaced a clip on a friends Delica, and the screws and replacement screws were #6. If you smash another hex wrench in there ( as he did, incidently ) you will round out the head, and no wrench will work. You will have to get replacements. I don't believe, and call me crazy if you must, that Spyderco would use different size screws for clip attachment from model to model when they are all 3 screw designs.

    I ended up using a small pair of channel locks to grab the side of the dome screw head and remove them. The replacements were factory along with the clip. #6 spun them in with blue loc-tite

    Have fun stormin' the castle!
    -Miracle Max
    The old three screw clips on my late 90's "Military" and "Terzuola" are Phillips heads.

    But anything over the past few years, as far as I recall, have been #6 Torx.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  3. #13
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
    The #6 torx is so fine it looks like standard hex.

    Have fun stormin' the castle!
    -Miracle Max
    You nailed it. Sort of.

    Folks, I was starting to really dig in my heels on this one—I couldn’t let it go. @blues suggestion to take a close up made me dig out the ipad pro—which has a magnification app on it. It turns out that these little bitches really are a poorly defined torx, not visable to cheaters/readers or young eyes (2 at the store had cheaters, one guy was a lot younger than me).

    The answer is....


    #7. Torx. Not 6, like every other Spyderco I’ve ever bought this side of the original molded clip delicas from the dawn of the 90s; not 8 or 9.

    The correct answer is a #7 torx. Which I now own at least one of.

    It’s been a while since I spent so much energy on something so inconsequential, but I finally kicked this little S-curved Bastid’s ass.

    Tip up clippage has been achieved. Now I get to add a 5x5 “wave” pickpocket attachment for some truly 1990-era box of evil goodness.

    (The movies “Handmaid’s tale,” “Jacob’s Ladder,” “Hunt for Red October,” “Quigley Down Under,” “Miller’s Crossing,” “Total Recall,” “Kings of New York,” “Lord of the Flies,” “Misery,” the original “It,” “Tremors,” “Hard to Kill,” “Flatliners,” and the final “Godfather” in the trilogy—among many others—prove the violence of the crackhouse zeitgeist. 1990 saw some fucked up interpersonal interaction, and the DEA narcs were right there for some of it, leading to the commercial release of the late 80’s design in 1990.)

    Thanks all for reading thus far.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  4. #14
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Glad it worked out. Perhaps they didn't start out as #7 Torx...but who knows? All's well that ends well. I've never owned that knife so I can't compare.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  5. #15
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Glad it worked out. Perhaps they didn't start out as #7 Torx...but who knows? All's well that ends well. I've never owned that knife so I can't compare.
    Dunno. It is a one-off clip design. I bought it new, so I think they just came with an odd set of screws. I'm a little embarrassed that 3 guys couldn't figure it out without relying on the ghost of Steve Jobs, but what; all's well, indeed.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  6. #16
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    For those who like the Civilian design, Spyderco also makes a Matriarch, which has a shorter, thicker blade and is available with an Emerson opener built into the blade.

    https://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/s...arch=matriarch

  7. #17
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillSWPA View Post
    For those who like the Civilian design, Spyderco also makes a Matriarch, which has a shorter, thicker blade and is available with an Emerson opener built into the blade.

    https://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/s...arch=matriarch
    I gave my dad one of those, and he loves it. My wife has a lil’ matriarch (even smaller, based on the delica handle size) as well.

    Since this thread is sort of about nothing, and we’ve moved on to the Civilian variants, here’s a good overview of the concept, origin, and line extension by Mike Janich—who would be in a position to report:

    http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...darticles=3091


    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  8. #18
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    Wiha made in Germany torx screwdriver set.
    6/7/8/9/10/15 at 27 ish shipped via prime.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002C582AQ...NYE0RKEWK98GF1
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcdgrips View Post
    Wiha made in Germany torx screwdriver set.
    6/7/8/9/10/15 at 27 ish shipped via prime.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002C582AQ...NYE0RKEWK98GF1
    Those look excellent, thanks.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    You nailed it. Sort of.

    (The movies “Handmaid’s tale,” “Jacob’s Ladder,” “Hunt for Red October,” “Quigley Down Under,” “Miller’s Crossing,” “Total Recall,” “Kings of New York,” “Lord of the Flies,” “Misery,” the original “It,” “Tremors,” “Hard to Kill,” “Flatliners,” and the final “Godfather” in the trilogy—among many others—prove the violence of the crackhouse zeitgeist. 1990 saw some fucked up interpersonal interaction, and the DEA narcs were right there for some of it, leading to the commercial release of the late 80’s design in 1990.)

    Thanks all for reading thus far.
    There were some interesting results with the Civilian posted by Dennis Martin from South Africa years ago:

    Mr. Martin Discusses the Merits of the Spyderco Civilian Hooked Blade Knife

    Although I found the Civilian interesting, it wasn’t until a senior SAPS Officer, Colonel Mike, alerted me to just how effective that radical knife could be. The blade is visually intimidating. This can be a deterrent, and enable you to win without fighting.

    Mike, one of our course graduates, was on a Bodyguard assignment, and entered the elevator of a hotel at the car-park level. The two characters who followed him in fitted the profile of local street scum, and he went to Condition Orange. One stood facing him, and as the doors closed his partner produced a craft knife and started to open it. Mike had already palmed his Civilian, and commenced proceedings with an elbow-smash to the jaw of the closer threat, then flicked open the Spyderco. At the sight of the curved blade the knifeman dropped his blade, and almost beat it to the floor, cowering in a foetal position on top of his compadre. Mike transferred the Civilian to his left hand, drew his Glock 26, and covered the pair until the elevator reached his floor.

    As mentioned above the stated function of the Civilian was to allow a minimally trained officer to get out of a hostile situation fast. So the fundamental technique envisages the Civilian being used passively, just covering up, or, shielding, the aggressive limb will meet the blade, and will be on a curve whichever the direction of force. “Curves equal cutting”. The limb will “cut itself” as it attacks

    Regarding fragility, well this case demonstrates that the Civilian tip does the job….

    A guy we’ll call Dan, has picked up company payroll from bank. He is carrying his Civilian in his hand, but not as a tactical precaution, more like you carry your keys and twirl them. He is attacked by two gunmen. The first grabs his arm. He opens the Civilian and goes in with a lowline ripping strike. The point enters the inguinal area, rips right through and cuts his belt off from the inside! Man down, instant fatality.

    Dan slashes at the second robber as he legs it… just missing his back.


    No getting tangled in clothing, no bending or breaking. I’ve have several Civilian cases on file, and that blade just rips free through flesh, clothing, leather, whatever, every time.

    With a degree of training the weapon can be used actively, to “defang”, as the FMA guys call it, that complex curve conforms to the human arm, again massive trauma with little skill.

    To illustrate that “defanging” capability, a case from RSA: Les Van, former Special Forces soldier who attended our TFK course in Nov 98, is entering Eastgate shopping mall. In his own account he was alert crossing the car park, but dropped into Condition White inside. He was getting the shopping list out of his pocket and looking down when he bumped into a “gorilla”, at least 6′ 5″ and heavy. Although Les apologised the guy turned and palm-thrust him in the face, knocking him right back into a bench (which prevented Les falling). The gorilla, rushed in shouting. Les accessed his Civilian and slashed the reaching arm. The guy froze, and screamed so loud that it even shocked Les. Blood spurted up over the cinema posters.

    Security staff arrived and seeing Les with a knife and the guy bleeding, arrested the guy! Shop staff then laid charges against the guy, who had been extorting money and molesting waitresses.


    The hawksbill can also be a fight winner, as our next case illustrates: A computer engineer gets in to a lift [elevator] carrying two briefcases. He crouches slightly to put them down in corner, and is shoulder charged into corner by two knife-wielding robbers, who demand his wallet. He can’t see and his arms are pinned. He manages to access his Spyderco Harpy and “cuts loose” slashing the grabbing arm; then blindly slashes back, getting number two across the face. The fight is on! He continues “slicing & dicing ” until both are down.

    Asked afterwards what was the most difficult part. He reflected, “keeping my balance with all the blood on the floor… I kept slipping and had to grab the rail as I slashed”


    Showing the knife to police officers in other countries, however, often produced a very negative reaction. Even SWAT instructors, who were happy to deploy with fearsome 12-guage shotguns, winced at the sight of the Civilian. When I told them it was originally designed for law-enforcement use, one instructor quipped that the only was a police department would let him carry that knife was if “Dirty Harry was made Chief of Police, and Hannibal Lecter elected Mayor!”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20131103...om/?page_id=65

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