Page 11 of 17 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 162

Thread: And Yet Another 320 Lawsuit?

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    How hard are you jamming your gun into the holster?
    What people do under stress is often quite different from what they'd do otherwise.



    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  2. #102
    Lowly Production C-Class olstyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    What people do under stress is often quite different from what they'd do otherwise.
    No doubt, but even if a Gadget/SCD can't prevent every possible problem, it (IMO at least) provides some amount of additional safety margin.

  3. #103
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    ^
    This. As soon as you think you're infallible, you significantly up the % chance that you'll prove yourself wrong about that assessment. I guess @willie has never made a mistake in a moment of inattention or overconfidence.
    I screw up as do others but have a good record with guns: one negligent discharge in 59 years. I put a .45 bullet in my truck door. Not long ago I discovered I had not unloaded my shotgun before leaving the field after dove hunting. When I got home and removed it from its case, I had two shells in the magazine but none in the chamber. I had never done that before. This may be age related. i will renew my carry license one more time for sure and then hang it up.

  4. #104
    IS WHAT PLANTS CRAVE BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    I understand the concept behind the SCD and the comparison to reholstering a revolver. But the average revolver has much more "reactionary gap" between trigger movement and hammer fall than a Glock. Ideally the shooter is pressing hard enough on the SCD to block the trigger from fully moving or fully being seated in the holster. Even then, how much time is there to react to "something is wrong" and stop the reholster action? Not much I wouldn't think.
    How much time does it take you to jerk your hand away from a surprise prick from a thorn bush? Faster then conscious thought. Once you get used to what it's supposed to feel like, any deviation from that sounds the same sort of subconscious alarm response. Building subconscious proficiency is the goal, and tactile feedback gives your subconscious that stimulus to react to.

    It's true a revolver gives you more feedback and time to react, and I think a lot of us here such as myself and Nyeti/DaggaBoy have repeatedly harped on the revolver as the ideal tool for the non-dedicated user. That does not mean this is a binary safe/unsafe situation.

    With a WML compatible duty holster, I put a t-shirt completely through the trigger guard (unloaded, of course) and could safely holster. Not the corner of the shirt, but roughly 18" pulled through to the point it was already pushing on the trigger. Obviously some holsters are tighter and wouldn't even allow the Glock to be inserted, but it gives you an idea of the utility. The trick is teaching yourself what normal feels like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Drawing and cranking off a shot before the muzzle is downrange and/or pointed at the threat is a similar issue. Both are caused by finger on trigger at incorrect moments. But the SCD would do nothing to prevent errors on presentation.
    Of course. That's not what it was designed or intended for.
    Important rule change regarding political discussion here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....58#post1151858

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  5. #105
    Lowly Production C-Class olstyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    I screw up as do others
    I don't think anyone is asking you to "hang it up," although that is of course your personal choice to make. My point was simply that you seemed to be implying that trained = impossible to make a mistake. Apologies for doing so in a somewhat snarky manner.

  6. #106
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by octagon View Post
    I think it is critical to ensure that discussion of design be clearly delineated from user induced discharge especially with members who are new or newer to guns on this board and in this specific thread. Regardless of personal preference or concern a gun that discharges when loaded and the trigger is pulled whether that be for disassembly, a foreign object entering the trigger guard or a users finger etc... that is not a design flaw but what the gun was intended to do. Blaming a manufacturer for that or saying it is an engineering fault is not accurate.
    The problem is that all these guns will be handled ultimately by human beings and some design decisions have less room for error than others when it comes to human beings acting as human beings do.

    If you fail to properly clear a Beretta 92 when you attempt to disassemble the pistol you find out when a live round falls out of the chamber when the slide and barrel are removed.

    If you fail to properly clear a Glock 17, when you attempt to disassemble the pistol you get a gunshot.

    That is most definitely a stupid engineering choice for a handgun.

    Engineering that doesn't take the human factor into account is bad engineering.
    3/15/2016

  7. #107
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Lots of talk of the Striker Control Device.
    Question for those who use the SCD. Does the short trigger travel and amount the SCD sticks out allow enough "reaction time" to stop holstering if a problem arises? Does thumb pressure on the SCD otherwise prevent the trigger from being pulled by a finger or other object during reholstering?

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    If your thumb is on the SCD any movement of the trigger will apply pressure into your thumb because the striker is moving rearward. To continue you have to press the gun into the holster harder, which will increase the pressure on the SCD. The instant there is any movement of the striker the SCD moves with it, or tries to. It translates pressure on the trigger to pressure pushing against your thumb instantly, giving you an immediate cue something is wrong.

    It serves two purposes: It warns you that pressure is being applied to the trigger and it gives you a way to block the striker's movement until you can get the problem sorted out.
    3/15/2016

  8. #108
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Texas
    [QUOTE=olstyn;1187652]I don't think anyone is asking you to "hang it up," although that is of course your personal choice to make. My point was simply that you seemed to be implying that trained = impossible to make a mistake. Apologies for doing so in a somewhat snarky manner.[/QUOTE

    No snark detected. No need to apologize.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    If your thumb is on the SCD any movement of the trigger will apply pressure into your thumb because the striker is moving rearward. To continue you have to press the gun into the holster harder, which will increase the pressure on the SCD. The instant there is any movement of the striker the SCD moves with it, or tries to. It translates pressure on the trigger to pressure pushing against your thumb instantly, giving you an immediate cue something is wrong.

    It serves two purposes: It warns you that pressure is being applied to the trigger and it gives you a way to block the striker's movement until you can get the problem sorted out.
    Yes. I understand the theory. In practice how well has it worked? Has anyone here using the SCD actually had an instance where they attempted to holster and would have had an AD that was prevented?

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Primarily because they aren't going off in someone's hand or during holstering.

    If you drop a duty belt with a gun in a retention holster and it fires, what could have pulled the trigger? Inertia, but no foreign object.

    Almost any discharge of a gun securely holstered precludes a foreign object pulling the trigger. Exceptions do occur, primarily with "big mouthed" holsters that allow for a weapon light, which have enough room for a foreign object (say, a handcuff key) to get inside.

    Forensics will show if a gun was fired in the holster, and were the muzzle level was when it occurred. Once the muzzle is deep enough, it's not a finger.

    At the institutional level, the event will generally be recreated with a non-firing cartridge in the chamber but the gun weighted the same. If the recreation also touches the gun off, that's a pretty solid sign.
    Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •