Don’t confuse what you pay with what the companies bid. Sig’s bid was 40% cheaper.Originally Posted by Alan0354
Don’t confuse what you pay with what the companies bid. Sig’s bid was 40% cheaper.
Don’t confuse what you pay with what the companies bid. Sig’s bid was 40% cheaper.
What you pay buying one handgun and what organizations pay buying 500, 15,000 or in the case of the MHS, 500,000 pistols are not the same thing.
People mistakenly believe gun companies are in business to make guns, when in fact, they are in business to make money.
SIG made a strategic decision to sell the military the MHS pistols at or somewhere near cost. Collateral sales are very much a thing. plenty of people will buy a gun be used it’s what they used in the service, or because if it’s what the Military, the FBI etc use it must be good. The M9 program and 80s action movies have sold a lot of Beretta 92s.
If you want to learn the history of the MHS program, how it came down to Glock and SIG and how SIG won there are multiple threads on the topic going back at least 5 years. Here are a few to get you started; the search box in the upper right corner is your friend.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....highlight=XM17
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-(9mm-Pistols)
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....n-Solicitation
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Entry-Pistols
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....nd-M18-pistols
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....highlight=P320
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....9-MOS-now-Mk27
Last edited by HCM; 02-20-2021 at 07:33 PM.
I think it is critical to ensure that discussion of design be clearly delineated from user induced discharge especially with members who are new or newer to guns on this board and in this specific thread. Regardless of personal preference or concern a gun that discharges when loaded and the trigger is pulled whether that be for disassembly, a foreign object entering the trigger guard or a users finger etc... that is not a design flaw but what the gun was intended to do. Blaming a manufacturer for that or saying it is an engineering fault is not accurate.
Guns that discharge when dropped or struck by an object when in a holster or not but nothing pulls the trigger is a design issue that should be a concern as it cannot be reasonably mitigated in a duty/military use handgun. That is what appears to be the main concern of this thread and the Sig P320 specifically whether confirmed or not.
Guns with short light trigger pulls as some striker fired guns may be considered are not flawed from a design perspective if the user or purchasing group deems the balance of safety and usability acceptable for them as long as the gun doesn't discharge when the trigger hasn't been pulled. A user that pulls the trigger without clearly determining the gun is safe with no magazine in it and the chamber is empty (visually and physically) is the problem. The same goes for a user that holsters a gun with an obstruction or the holster itself entering the trigger guard and activating the trigger.
DA/SA guns may offer some added security or peace of mind from a longer, heavier trigger pull and hammer indicating trigger activity by feel but for a user that forgets to decock and/or doesn't thumb the hammer when holstering the short light trigger can just as easily or even more easily be activated with the same negative results regardless of design. I have personally observed failure to decock and holstering or attempts to holster quite a bit in multiple training I have attended or instructed in. Same for failing to put on safe SA guns,ARs etc... These are not design issues or at least not design failings.
When a small,lightweight part lightly sprung gets dirty and fails to work properly things get less obvious. When a part can break and the striker can move forward with force unobstructed and strike the primer AND this part has been shown to break in a similar manner this is a concern for me and I hope the manufacturer.
I agree that SIG is acting strategically here. The MHS represents SIG's most sizable US military contract to date ($580M); sure they had the M11 and Mk24/25 pistols but those were small contracts by comparison. They've made some inroads with the MCX and their .338 LMG, but these are niche procurements.
More recently the Army selected SIG's Tango6 optic ($77M); this is a substantial purchase with the promise of additional procurements.
The big prize is the NGSW and the accompanying ammunition contract.
SIG is setting themselves up as one stop shopping for sidearms, long guns, crew served weapons, ammunition, suppressors, optics, and accessories. And any DOD endorsement will lead to further sales in the foreign military, LE, and civilian sectors.
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
Yes, that is correct. Except in the picture he has the striker oriented upside down. The torsion spring actually holds the striker block down until it is pushed up by the safety lever in the frame when the trigger is pulled. This allows the tab on the striker block to clear the ridge on the rear of the striker, allowing the striker to move forward.
I still do not understand why trained persons might have negligent discharges when pulling Glock triggers in order to clean them. The preventive step is simple. But alas I still read about these events. Perhaps police cadets should spend an hour per day disassembling and reassembling issued Glocks. A dear friend bought a Glock against my advice and asked my help in teaching her to shoot and maintain it. We spent two hours disassembling and assembling the pistol. But I added a new twist. I gifted her a magazine to be used for disassembly. I modified it to accept no ammo yet still lock back the slide. Also, I spray painted it orange. I taught her to use this magazine to lock back the slide while she checked the chamber. Then she would remove the mag and proceed with disassembly. I taught her in 5 sessions. She fired 500 rounds of my ammo. She stores the Glock in a kydex holster shell with chamber loaded. She does not carry it. She elected not to carry. Her choice. I have a Remington 1100 20 ga standard weight shotgun on the 12 ga frame. I have had it cut down for security use, and one day I will give this to her despite the fact that she votes for the wrong candidates concerning 2A matters.
For the same reason experienced drivers have at fault crashes, experienced electricians shock themselves, experienced carpenters cut off fingers, etc. It just takes a momentary lapse in attention and some complacency.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
As I glanced through this thread, I had one thought. How does one prove way, way after the fact, that a gun went off WITHOUT the trigger being moved either by the person's finger or by some object? Over the years I bet everyone here has seen a slow motion film of some series of actions where something happened midway that; 1- the viewers didn't see in real time, and that 2- the person had no idea he had done. Could be video analysis of a golf swing, could be a race car driver finding out via telemetry that he actually does come off the gas a little at a point on the track. I would hate to be the prosecutor on one of these cases.
^
This. As soon as you think you're infallible, you significantly up the % chance that you'll prove yourself wrong about that assessment. I guess @willie has never made a mistake in a moment of inattention or overconfidence.
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