Page 14 of 17 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 ... LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 162

Thread: And Yet Another 320 Lawsuit?

  1. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Gaston did the initial design and brought in some “firearms” people to refine it. As discussed with MIM certain use of certain materials require one to take the material’s properties into account. Gaston’s Glock’s experience with plastics was integral to the success of the design. As I recall Bubitz was an Austrian Customs Officer and went to Styer after Glock. “Firearms” covers a wide swath of experience. Hunting guns and service rifles are firearms but may or may not translate to service pistols.
    I have heard that Bubitz wasn’t involved with design while at Glock but used his employment at the company to leverage better positions at Steyr etc.

  2. #132
    Member jd950's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    In the flyover zone
    Thanks, guys, for the education. I had assumed Glock, himself "ran" things but others designed the gun. Always happy to learn new stuff!

  3. #133
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by jd950 View Post
    No, I think I just wasn't clear. My guess was that persons experienced in the design of firearms designed the Glock 17, subject to the goals of the customer., which is why I would be interested in knowing their background (Steyr, perhaps?) My assumption is that Gaston Glock did not design the gun, since as far as I know, he had no familiarity with the field. I am not even sure if he possesses an engineering degree or in what subset of engineering it might be. I suspect if Glock himself had any relevant experience or training, it would be known. Once, several years ago, I looked up the Glock patent application. It was interesting because many of the statements in it about the novelty of design were either blatant misstatements or indicative of a complete lack of firearms knowledge by the writers. I assume the application was actually written by a patent lawyer, but the factual statements would likely have been supplied or vetted by the client. I probably still have it somewhere.

    ETA: Octagon posted while I was typing. Thanks for the info. I just looked up Wilhelm Bubits. According to Wikipedia (so, who knows) "As a hobby shooter and former police officer, Wilhelm Bubits used his experience and ideas about handguns to advance modern pistol design."
    Paul Barrett covers a bit of the early design of the Glock 17 that was accepted by the Austrian military in his book, Glock: Rise of America’s Gun. He mentions a couple men who were part of his sessions at Velden in the early 80s, Col. Friederich Dechant and Sigfried Hubner:

    Name:  36B59FE3-D0AB-4858-8D6B-A69F29DA2F67.jpg
Views: 657
Size:  68.3 KB

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0307719952...YYQ3WDPKG3QR0S

  4. #134
    Another news story on the P320. Rehashed stuff from awhile ago combined with the lawsuit mentioned in my OP:

    https://www.inquirer.com/business/si...-20210227.html

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  5. #135
    Glock Collective Assimile Suvorov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Escapee from the SF Bay Area now living on the Front Range of Colorado.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Another news story on the P320. Rehashed stuff from awhile ago combined with the lawsuit mentioned in my OP:

    https://www.inquirer.com/business/si...-20210227.html

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    A fairly surprisingly competent article.

  6. #136
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    ABQ
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Lots of talk of the Striker Control Device.

    Question for those who use the SCD. Does the short trigger travel and amount the SCD sticks out allow enough "reaction time" to stop holstering if a problem arises? Does thumb pressure on the SCD otherwise prevent the trigger from being pulled by a finger or other object during reholstering?

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    From my understanding, that is exactly what it was intended to do. I saw Todd G. shooting initial prototypes, and have taken several classes, and thus, several meals with the inventor. Not necessarily to stop the striker from moving far enough to fall, but to signal the shooter "hey...somethin ain't right here". Although in playing with mine with both my Glocks, I can, if I push hard enough, block the striker far enough forward to keep the safeties engaged. That is not normal thumb pressure as I reholster, though. I have taken a lot of people into custody, and have had to "speed holster" many, many times. I do not know for a fact that, in the heat of the moment, with an thumb on the back of the SCD that I will notice the "something's wrong here" message of the SCD, but I like the layer of opportunity to avoid an ND.

    I have posted before, started with revolvers, thumb on hammer reholstering (thanks @Mas). Went to DA/SA autos. Thumb on hammer reholster. Went to single action auto, thumb in front of hammer, safety on reholster. Now with Glock/SCD, thumb on SCD reholster.

    pat

  7. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Another news story on the P320. Rehashed stuff from awhile ago combined with the lawsuit mentioned in my OP:

    https://www.inquirer.com/business/si...-20210227.html

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    I think this article is very well done.

    At this point in my career I am basically a bureaucrat described as an administrator. The main part of my job is student, employee, and teacher safety. Once safety has been established then teachers can teach and students can learn. With that in mind, I evaluate all new programs and products from a safety aspect first. Both employees and students will sue for everything. Any product that seems dangerous or has a potential to harm is pretty much removed from consideration right off the bat.

    I think Sig is going to have a increasingly hard time until they can prove their product safe. Right or wrong the perception is out there that these guns are not safe. The local cops that stop by my school to visit talked about it with me and also said that there is an advertisement for legal representation if you are injured by a P320 in one of the cop magazines they read. Articles like this one will only expose more people to these issues.

    If I was a city manager or a police officer involved in buying new weapons for a departments I can't even imagine considering the SIG. At this point any ND, related to the potential problem or not, is going to be litigated. I can't imagine the payout for a second or third year cop who shoots themself or is shot by a non-commanded discharge. If a citizen was shot, legit or god forbid on accident, it would expose the city and department to additional scrutiny. There are enough other good platforms out there that I would not take the risk.

    I am not trying to bash SIG at all, but just putting out some random thoughts from someone who is involved in buying lots of stuff for a local government entity and has had to participate in ridiculously stupid lawsuits that we settle.

    I really do like the concept of this pistol and hope SIG has an exit strategy.

  8. #138
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    From my understanding, that is exactly what it was intended to do. I saw Todd G. shooting initial prototypes, and have taken several classes, and thus, several meals with the inventor. Not necessarily to stop the striker from moving far enough to fall, but to signal the shooter "hey...somethin ain't right here". Although in playing with mine with both my Glocks, I can, if I push hard enough, block the striker far enough forward to keep the safeties engaged. That is not normal thumb pressure as I reholster, though. I have taken a lot of people into custody, and have had to "speed holster" many, many times. I do not know for a fact that, in the heat of the moment, with an thumb on the back of the SCD that I will notice the "something's wrong here" message of the SCD, but I like the layer of opportunity to avoid an ND.

    I have posted before, started with revolvers, thumb on hammer reholstering (thanks @Mas). Went to DA/SA autos. Thumb on hammer reholster. Went to single action auto, thumb in front of hammer, safety on reholster. Now with Glock/SCD, thumb on SCD reholster.

    pat
    Just like with a hammer, the only downward pressure on the gun going into the holster should be through the SCD. If you do this correctly, you should have to maintain some pressure on the front strap to control the pistol as it goes into the holster

    The only difference with the SCD is how the thumb should be applied. If you just lay your thumb across the SCD, (like you would with a hammer) then it can pretty easily move. The tip of your thumb should contact the very base of the SCD.

  9. #139
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Living across the Golden Bridge , and through the Rainbow Tunnel, somewhere north of Fantasyland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Asked another way; how many cops have shot themselves while drawing or reholstering vs how many have been injured or killed because they couldn't deactivate a safety?

    Will anyone be terribly surprised if it turns out the fellow in the lawsuit above shot himself? I'm not saying he did or didn't. But stuff like this happens.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    I think it is very likely that many of these incidents are negligent discharges, yes. But I'm now pretty well convinced that yes, there is a design flaw with the gun. Something that would likely be a very easy fix....but Sig. I'm convinced enough that I left the house with my 226 on my hip today, not the 320.

  10. #140
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bloomington, IN
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Will anyone be terribly surprised if it turns out the fellow in the lawsuit above shot himself?
    Yes. I will be VERY surprised if that turns out to be the case, despite Sig's constant, never ending attempts to turn the results of their design and manufacturing issues into "operator errors."

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •