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Thread: Viability of Pieing

  1. #181
    For anyone who is still interested
    Starting at the 15min mark. Regardless of the remainder of the content, there are a few specific actions that are very common demonstrated in that video.

    Shooter is on his corner, takes a shot, flinches away from the corner, then immediately comes back to that same point and continues trying to hold it. There is also frequent "cant see him" being exchanged.

    From a training perspective:
    1) Knowing how to teach guys how to "take it on the chin" and continue fighting
    2) Not burning your position multiple times with repeated exposures
    3) Pieing in complex environments doesnt actually translate to an easier intake of information


    Just more discussion points given new video. Not trying to harsh a mellow

  2. #182
    Pickle boy snow white's Avatar
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    When the gas was deployed it seems like it was wedged between the other officer and the corner forcing him into the open where he subsequently was shot. That seems less than ideal.
    Come, mother, come! For terror is thy name, death is in thy breath, and every shaking step destroys a world for e'er. Thou 'time', the all-destroyer! Come, O mother, come!

  3. #183
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    In response to the above comments:
    1) if you mean by "takes a shot", that he got shot, then you're correct. Doesn't appear the officer fired. His flinch back was due to taking fire.
    2) the guy clearly "took it on the chin" (vest) and stayed at his position.
    3) his position was burned the moment the suspect exited the structure, and he challenged. Other than a total retreat, holding his perimeter position with the marginal cover he had looks like it may have been the least bad option.
    4) I don't think the concept of "pieing" as it's been discussed in this thread, as a viable searching or clearing technique, applies at all in this context. He's holding a perimeter position, and attempting to use the only available 'cover' afforded by that corner, and still maintain observation of that door.

    As for @snow whites comment about forcing the forward officer off of cover.....yeah, less that ideal positioning. But the shot that finally took out that officer came significantly after the officers had both repositioned behind cover.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    In response to the above comments:
    1) if you mean by "takes a shot", that he got shot, then you're correct. Doesn't appear the officer fired. His flinch back was due to taking fire.
    2) the guy clearly "took it on the chin" (vest) and stayed at his position.
    3) his position was burned the moment the suspect exited the structure, and he challenged. Other than a total retreat, holding his perimeter position with the marginal cover he had looks like it may have been the least bad option.
    4) I don't think the concept of "pieing" as it's been discussed in this thread, as a viable searching or clearing technique, applies at all in this context. He's holding a perimeter position, and attempting to use the only available 'cover' afforded by that corner, and still maintain observation of that door.

    As for @snow whites comment about forcing the forward officer off of cover.....yeah, less that ideal positioning. But the shot that finally took out that officer came significantly after the officers had both repositioned behind cover.
    1. His position took fire, he flinched behind cover, then returned to that same position. That is the most common human reaction to getting shot at. My point as it relates to pieing is that is usually what the gunfight turns into.

    2. Yes he returned to the same spot.

    3. Audible call in the open is one thing. Taking accurate effective fire on your position is pretty indicative of getting burned

    As this relates to pieing. The position that guy found himself in, is the similar style of fight pieing leads too.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by KEW8338 View Post
    1. His position took fire, he flinched behind cover, then returned to that same position. That is the most common human reaction to getting shot at. My point as it relates to pieing is that is usually what the gunfight turns into.

    2. Yes he returned to the same spot.

    3. Audible call in the open is one thing. Taking accurate effective fire on your position is pretty indicative of getting burned

    As this relates to pieing. The position that guy found himself in, is the similar style of fight pieing leads too.
    KEW - all due respect, you keep making the same points over and over, although, to your credit, you do change the format up a little.

    Response to perceived or actual threat is largely dependent on training and/or aggressiveness.

    So can we agree that a five minute class on pieing will get you killed in da streetz. Please.

  6. #186
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    I donít have a dog in either side of this discussion as itís way out of my lane.

    This video is rough to watch, but it does show the failure of common home construction in the US as cover.

    "I don't know if it is a placebo effect or not, but I have a growing feeling of well being that comes directly from my instinctual survival drive deep in my belly centerĒ

  7. #187
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    So, Washington Post, CBS News, and the Democratic Party, how did all those de-escalation tactics work out for Chris?

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    I donít have a dog in either side of this discussion as itís way out of my lane.

    This video is rough to watch, but it does show the failure of common home construction in the US as cover.

    This again is a super common response when pieing actually encounters opposition.

    Your momentum and initiative stall really fast, then it takes some serious giddy up to get back in there.

    This is all predicated off the tactical decision if/need to go through that door or occupy that room. Which often enough people don't discuss when they bring up pieing.

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