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Thread: LPVOs in 2023 and beyond

  1. #911
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    For what it's worth I have been very happy with my Trijicon Credo 2-10 FFP and my offset Holosun 507k in the arisaka offset mount (see below for photo). Pic is a bit old, but have since had it re-barreled with a 16" Compass Lake tactical profile barrel (~34oz). The gun is among my favorite in the safe.

    Credo's is not much more than the Razor IIE, but offers significantly greater magnification (vs a 1-6x, anyway). The 507k is very light and most importantly compact vs a fullsize RDS or even the 503c/RMR/etc. Keeps the gun from dinging up other longarms in my safe.

    I can definitely see the utility of an offset mRDS and a 1-X powered optic, but like others, I also figured that I may as well reap the benefits of higher magnification if it can be had at comparable weight.

    If I was looking to do it again, I'd look hard at the SWFA SS HD 3-9x scopes + an offset holosun. Very budget friendly and quality glass for the money, if you can live without illumination that is. I have their 3-15 power scope on my .22 and don't really find that I miss the illumination for 99% of the shooting that I do. I don't hate the 2-10 Credo, but the reticle is rather fine for my purposes, it's a little spendy, and the turrets are a little weird (8mil/rev? ok...). The big advantage really is weight & illumination... if you can live without the illumination, the SWFA 3-9 is clearly the scope to buy.

    YMMV


  2. #912
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    For what it's worth I have been very happy with my Trijicon Credo 2-10 FFP and my offset Holosun 507k in the arisaka offset mount (see below for photo). Pic is a bit old, but have since had it re-barreled with a 16" Compass Lake tactical profile barrel (~34oz). The gun is among my favorite in the safe.

    Credo's is not much more than the Razor IIE, but offers significantly greater magnification (vs a 1-6x, anyway). The 507k is very light and most importantly compact vs a fullsize RDS or even the 503c/RMR/etc. Keeps the gun from dinging up other longarms in my safe.

    I can definitely see the utility of an offset mRDS and a 1-X powered optic, but like others, I also figured that I may as well reap the benefits of higher magnification if it can be had at comparable weight.

    If I was looking to do it again, I'd look hard at the SWFA SS HD 3-9x scopes + an offset holosun. Very budget friendly and quality glass for the money, if you can live without illumination that is. I have their 3-15 power scope on my .22 and don't really find that I miss the illumination for 99% of the shooting that I do. I don't hate the 2-10 Credo, but the reticle is rather fine for my purposes, it's a little spendy, and the turrets are a little weird (8mil/rev? ok...). The big advantage really is weight & illumination... if you can live without the illumination, the SWFA 3-9 is clearly the scope to buy.

    YMMV
    There are a couple of issues that might pop up with the SWFA SS HD 3-9. On paper it might be the perfect MPVO to pair with an offset dot. However:
    1. It's unobtanium. Unless you find one on the used market (good luck), it's perpetually out of stock. Something weird is happening with SWFA, if you go to the website the majority of scope brands they used to sell are no longer there. It used to be a great site to compare optics, but it's almost like they are preparing to exit the business. The entirety of the SS scope line is out of stock now except for the 5-20x50 HD.
    2. The windage turret on that scope is so large I'd bet it would make an offset off the rail a no go. You could put a mini RDS off the scope itself at a 45 degree between the turrets, but that introduces a lot of offset issues because the dot is no longer over the bore.
    A version of this scope with low profile turrets would be damn near perfect as it's 19 oz in it's current configuration.

    *Update edit: After posting the above I did some quick research and found out SWFA has announced they will stop being a retailer of other brands and are putting their 100% focus into the SWFA-SS brand. If they are about to refresh the SWFA-SS line and keep the same design philosophy, this could shake things up quite a bit.
    Last edited by stomridertx; 05-24-2023 at 02:42 PM.

  3. #913
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomridertx View Post
    There are a couple of issues that might pop up with the SWFA SS HD 3-9. On paper it might be the perfect MPVO to pair with an offset dot. However:
    1. It's unobtanium. Unless you find one on the used market (good luck), it's perpetually out of stock. Something weird is happening with SWFA, if you go to the website the majority of scope brands they used to sell are no longer there. It used to be a great site to compare optics, but it's almost like they are preparing to exit the business. The entirety of the SS scope line is out of stock now except for the 5-20x50 HD.
    2. The windage turret on that scope is so large I'd bet it would make an offset off the rail a no go. You could put a mini RDS off the scope itself at a 45 degree between the turrets, but that introduces a lot of offset issues because the dot is no longer over the bore.
    A version of this scope with low profile turrets would be damn near perfect as it's 19 oz in it's current configuration.

    *Update edit: After posting the above I did some quick research and found out SWFA has announced they will stop being a retailer of other brands and are putting their 100% focus into the SWFA-SS brand. If they are about to refresh the SWFA-SS line and keep the same design philosophy, this could shake things up quite a bit.
    Those are good points. I had heard rumors SWFA might be getting out of optics but I sure hope not. For the price, I am super happy with my 3-15. Re: the offset, i guess it depends where you would place it; as you can see in my photo, it is far enough behind the turrets that it'd be a non issue for my setup.

    Oops, just read your edit. That is great news! Love their stuff. If they can keep around the same pricepoint and modernize their designs while retaining their legendary durability, will give Vortex and a lot of other players in that price bracket a serious run for their money.
    Last edited by Nephrology; 05-24-2023 at 02:53 PM.

  4. #914
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    Those are good points. I had heard rumors SWFA might be getting out of optics but I sure hope not. For the price, I am super happy with my 3-15. Re: the offset, i guess it depends where you would place it; as you can see in my photo, it is far enough behind the turrets that it'd be a non issue for my setup.

    Oops, just read your edit. That is great news! Love their stuff. If they can keep around the same pricepoint and modernize their designs while retaining their legendary durability, will give Vortex and a lot of other players in that price bracket a serious run for their money.
    It's not optics placement, it's that the turret would encroach into the viewable area of the window of the red dot. Possibly enough to be an issue, but we'll never know until that configuration is mounted up. You don't have much window to begin with on a 407k.

  5. #915
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomridertx View Post
    It's not optics placement, it's that the turret would encroach into the viewable area of the window of the red dot. Possibly enough to be an issue, but we'll never know until that configuration is mounted up. You don't have much window to begin with on a 407k.
    Ahh, I see. Could definitely see that being an issue with the 3-15 I have but don't own a 3-9 to compare. Seems like a reasonable concern though, SWFA's turrets are pretty gigantic

  6. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    I had heard rumors SWFA might be getting out of optics but I sure hope not.
    Per https://www.longrangehunting.com/thr...stion.323624/:

    SWFA, Inc. is a family owned and operated business, specializing in hunting and shooting related products since 1973. In the 1970's we had a single retail location, in the 1980's and 1990's we were a traveling company (roughly 110 gun shows per year), in the 2000's we transformed into a mail-order operation, in 2014 we went back to operating a retail store alongside of our mail order operation. We've always evolved with the market and technology.

    During this timeline for SWFA, Inc., an unforeseen fork in the road occurred in 1994 when we acquired the exclusive rights to the "Super Sniper" riflescope line of optics. The line consisted of four models (10x42, 10x42M, 16x42 and 20x42). SWFA, Inc. had always treated the Super Sniper products as it did other product lines by offering them for sale as a retailer.

    As years went by, we expanded the line to include a 6x42, 12x42, as well as scope rings and mounts. In 2010, we developed our patented Mil-Quad reticle to be an improvement over the standard USMC Mil-Dot reticle. Prior to marketing the new reticle concept, we officially took complete ownership of the "Super Sniper" line of scopes. The first thing we did was start our own branding by developing the logo and changing the name from "Super Sniper" to "SWFA-SS". We expanded the line further by introducing four new HD models (10x42HD, 1-4xHD 3-9xHD, 5-20xHD). As the SWFA-SS line of optics continued expanding, so did the need for resources to keep up with the growing SWFA-SS brand.

    As of today, SWFA, Inc. is in the process of transitioning from being a retailer of many different brands, to solely being a manufacturer/retailer of our in house line of products in order to fully concentrate resources to the continued growth, expansion, and success of the SWFA-SS brand.

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    Wendy
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  7. #917
    Member LOBO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomridertx View Post
    I used to also be the guy saying LPVOs with offset dots were dumb. That was my brain looking at a setup and coming to a what I thought was a logical conclusion without actually running it. I gave in and tried it and I get it now. Options manifest into versatility. If you are in a confined area, you'll find shots that are faster with the LPVO on 1x and other scenarios where the offset dot is faster, such as shooting on the move in a certain direction or opposite side barricades. When you do dial up magnification there is immediate 1x at your disposal. My Razor 1-6 /Badger C1 Mount/Romeo 5 setup is right at the limit of what I will tolerate in weight on a 16" upper. For me to consider an MPVO they are going to at least have to get it to 21.5 oz somehow with the same glass as the Razor at the same price point. I've been tempted to try the Vortex Razor LHT 3-15X42, if they made that in FFP I might jump in that direction.

    Attachment 105003

    What scope mount/offset mount is this? Thanks.

  8. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOBO View Post
    What scope mount/offset mount is this? Thanks.
    It's a Badger C1.

  9. #919
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOBO View Post
    What scope mount/offset mount is this? Thanks.
    https://www.badgerordnance.com/c-o-m...-300-300b.html
    https://www.badgerordnance.com/condi...00-10-10b.html
    https://www.badgerordnance.com/condi...00-11-11b.html
    The C1 mount system is really popular so it's a bit tricky to find everything the same color in stock at the same time.

  10. #920
    Member LOBO's Avatar
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    Thanks fellas I appreciate it.

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