LPVOs in 2023 and beyond

[Mitch]

I think it depends on what type of hunting. Assuming shorter ranges based on the .458 cal. ?

The PST is a good optic but it’s heavy. Are you walking or hunting from a stand?

Do you need a 1x with a daylight bright dot on a hunting gun ?

Maybe for dangerous game at short ranges ?

The consistency/ carry over of having the same or similar 1-6s on your hunting gun and your training /defense gun is a potential benefit.

458 has more to do with regulations than being the best tool for the job. But whatever, it’s fine. I’ll be hunting from a stand. And yes, ranges will be mostly within 100 yards and absolutely less than 200. Your last point is what I was thinking initially, but I still wonder if the two are different enough (other than both being AR pattern rifles) that it’s a forced compromise that doesn’t make as much sense as I might like.

If you want an LPVO, buy one. It wouldn't be my first choice for a deer rifle. Not that it's not useable, but there are better and cheaper options if that's the primary use case. A Leupy 2-7 or 3-9 would work better in low light, cost less, and weigh less.

Of course you can hunt with irons if the conditions are right, and a LPVO is a huge step up from that.

Why do you say that about the low light? Is it something about the size of the lense or something like that? I don’t know a ton about scopes so I could be going about this entirely wrong.

[littlejerry]

458 has more to do with regulations than being the best tool for the job. But whatever, it’s fine. I’ll be hunting from a stand. And yes, ranges will be mostly within 100 yards and absolutely less than 200. Your last point is what I was thinking initially, but I still wonder if the two are different enough (other than both being AR pattern rifles) that it’s a forced compromise that doesn’t make as much sense as I might like.



Why do you say that about the low light? Is it something about the size of the lense or something like that? I don’t know a ton about scopes so I could be going about this entirely wrong.

All things being equal, a larger objective lens will gather more light and provide a brighter image.

[M2CattleCo]

A 4X32 ACOG would be a great deer scope. They gather light very well. 24mm objective lenses and FFP just don’t cut it if you’re trying to stay out as late as you can. You dial it back to 2-3X to get some light, then you can’t see the reticle at all so you turn on the illumination and the first visible setting washes everything out and you’re done.

There’s a good reason why a 2FP 3-9X50 with a heavy duplex reticle is such a good deer scope.

I’ve always loved a TA31 with the green horseshoe reticle.

[gato naranja]

I can't help but feel that LPVOs with illuminated reticles are too often tasked with an impossibility, in that they are expected to do rather more than they possibly can at this time (I believe that technology will eventually make an end run around the paradigms, but that is pie-in-the-sky for now).

We resisted the LPVO until we concluded that for us, the market offered affordable examples that came pretty close to the speed and usability of a red dot, coupled with the benefits of a low-fixed-power - say, 4X or lower - trad riflescope like we had previously used on short-legged carbines back in the day. In the end, something like the Viper PST gen II 1-6 is a good - though a tad heavy for its size - compromise for us and does what we realistically want it to do.

As target rigs they are not viable. As low-light scopes, they are useful only with the magnification cranked down low. As a substitute for a red dot, they are bulky and often have something undesirable about the reticle. Alas, there are no free lunches in the world of weapon-mounted optics. For a one-gun guy or gal, the LPVO can be a useful compromise, just like a 16" middy AR is. If the capabilities of a more dedicated setup is called for, then it would seem prudent to invest in a dedicated setup.

[KEW8338]

I am 100% FFP.

The decision to people usually becomes:
Do I want a 1x that can do 6/8/10x
Or do I want a 6/8/10x that can do 1x stuff...

Properly designed reticles (that being the key) still offer a high degree of low magnification power use.

You may have to learn a slightly different way to sight though. What I mean by that, is similar to using the bottom hash of an eotech reticle for your 7-10m hold.

[rob_s]

I can't help but feel that LPVOs with illuminated reticles are too often tasked with an impossibility, in that they are expected to do rather more than they possibly can at this time (I believe that technology will eventually make an end run around the paradigms, but that is pie-in-the-sky for now).

What do you mean? I just want an optic that can do both FFP and SFP, with a daylight bright reticule that has user-adjustable options for dot, circle-dot, and horseshoe, that has stadia lines when I want them and none when I don't, that weights <1 lbs with mount and all and costs less than $500?



Ok, in reality, I'd take 2 of those. sub-16 oz mounted and true daylight brightness, and I'd double the price restriction.

[gato naranja]

What do you mean? I just want an optic that can do both FFP and SFP, with a daylight bright reticule that has user-adjustable options for dot, circle-dot, and horseshoe, that has stadia lines when I want them and none when I don't, that weights <1 lbs with mount and all and costs less than $500?

I can see the ad copy now... "The optic that does it all, designed for the gun that can do anything."

[Nephrology]

Now that I have my hands on the Razor.... I gotta say, my very first reaction was "Hey, this is pretty similar to the Meopta." The Razor is clearly the better optic, but the wide field of view, flat 1x performance, generous eyebox and optical clarity of the Optika6 I would put at about 80-85 % of the Razor's (I'd put the PST II at more like 55-60% of the Razor...). Illumination of course is where the Razor is a quantum leap forward from the Optika6, but in hindsight I am really impressed with Meopta for making a scope that gets so close to the Razor in quality for $550.

I no longer own the Optika6 - sold it and kept the Meopta ZD instead. The ZD has glass that is as clear as the razor's IMO but not quite as flat at 1x and it doesn't have the same "window effect" that the Razor and Optika6 have (thin scope tube that disappears at the right eye relief), but it is as bright or brighter than the Razor so the RDS performance is there so I had to keep it over the Optika.

Anyway, the Razor is a fantastic optic and with one in my hands it's obvious why it's the class leader. Still, if you can live without daylight bright illumination, the Optika6 is clearly the best value LPVO on the market for under $1k IMO. Anyone in the market for a 1-6 SFP optic should take a really hard look at the Optika6, IMO.

Related - I also got the Holosun MRDS mounted in an Arisaka offset. With the Credo it is a pretty light setup. We'll see how I like the offset RDS setup. Given the generous eyebox and 2x FOV I think this gun would be perfectly usable with out the RDS but it will be fun to test out at least. The Holosun was cheap enough to make it worth a try..

[Nephrology]

What do you mean? I just want an optic that can do both FFP and SFP, with a daylight bright reticule that has user-adjustable options for dot, circle-dot, and horseshoe, that has stadia lines when I want them and none when I don't, that weights <1 lbs with mount and all and costs less than $500?



Ok, in reality, I'd take 2 of those. sub-16 oz mounted and true daylight brightness, and I'd double the price restriction.

I know you're joking... but March does make a 1-10 that is supposedly daylight bright and weighs under 19 oz

https://marchscopes.com/scopes/d10v24t/

edit: oops, actually, the illuminated model is this one, and it's even lighter at 17.8 oz:

https://marchscopes.com/scopes/d10sv24fiml/

[DamonL]

Thats a lot less than the S&B Dual.