LPVOs in 2023 and beyond

[Not HighSpeed]

Garand Thumb reviews the Leupold Mark 6 and compares it to the Razor HD-E and the Nightforce ATACR.

This video was specifically responsible for my purchase of the Mk6 in 2019.

I know some people feel it is getting a bit "long in the tooth" with the advancement of the 1-8x, 1-10x and on that note, every LPVO less than that are then. But I do feel it is the best optic if you are looking at 1-6x(and also FFP, which the Mk6 is).

The reticle is nice, feels "just right" in my opinion. The glass is excellent and the weight is amazing, especially if paired with a Scalarworks mount. But they seem to be hard to find and are expensive. I lucked into one when I found mine for $1500(with the magnifier ring and mount) and I do admit, I may not have bought one if I couldn't find it for much more.

[Tokarev]

I've now had a chance to play around some with the Razor Gen III 1-10x24.

What I like:

• Weight. Vortex did a fantastic job in this regard given the scope's features. Weight, as others have already said, is basically the same as the Razor and Viper 1-6 offerings.
• Brightness. The reticle is definitely bright on the higher settings. In direct sunlight the user can probably run on setting 8 or 9 without difficulty.
• Reticle. The MRAD (don't know about the MOA) reticle seems quite useful. It is not really visible at 1x but the three thick stadia surrounding the reticle could be used for rough aiming at close range if the battery dies or the user forgets to turn the illumination on. The reticle itself becomes useful and easily seen at about 3x. It does obscure the target at higher magnification but the reticle is translucent so the target is still somewhat visible.
• Image. The glass is bright and clear and the turrets are low and don't appear in the periphery of the image.

What I don't like:

• Price. The scope is expensive. With that said, it is cheaper than an ATACR or Mark 6, etc. Price for features is probably actually pretty darned good. If and when Vortex makes a Viper 1-10x24 with similar features for 40% of the price they'll own the market.
• No scope caps. The scope comes with a throw lever but no caps. These should be included given the price.
• Eye relief/eye box. At 1x it is fine and stays pretty forgiving up to about 5x or 6x. At the higher end it does get a little tight and touchy with regard to cheek weld and head placement. An issue overcome with practice? Probably.
• Focus. Setting the image so it is crystal clear at 1x seemed to result in a slightly blurry image at 10x. Conversely setting the focus at 10x resulted in a blurry image at 1x. I assume most of this is based on no parallax adjustment and needing to figure out what distance (100 meters?) is best for an overall focus.

Is the Razor worth the purchase over something like the NX8 1-8? Hard to say but probably not. I'd say the difference in size and weight (and slightly lower cost) probably makes the NX8 the better product. And I think a person can pretty easily make the case that the difference between 8x and 9x or 10x becomes mostly academic.

[rob_s]

Is the Razor worth the purchase over something like the NX8 1-8? Hard to say but probably not.

So is the NX8 still the scope to beat? At $1700-1800?
https://www.amazon.com/NightForce-1-.../dp/B094DH3ZHV

Is there something *almost* as good for under $1k that doesn't make up the lower price by adding weight?

[Tokarev]

So is the NX8 still the scope to beat? At $1700-1800?
https://www.amazon.com/NightForce-1-.../dp/B094DH3ZHV



I'd save a few bucks and get it from here:

https://www.scopelist.com/Nightforce...8-Show-De.aspx

Is there something *almost* as good for under $1k that doesn't make up the lower price by adding weight?

There doesn't seem to be. At least not in the 1-8+ class.

[dontshakepandas]

Is the Razor worth the purchase over something like the NX8 1-8? Hard to say but probably not. I'd say the difference in size and weight (and slightly lower cost) probably makes the NX8 the better product. And I think a person can pretty easily make the case that the difference between 8x and 9x or 10x becomes mostly academic.

I've had both, and still have the Razor Gen 3, so I would say it is absolutely worth getting over the NX8 unless the size and weight are critical factors.

The NX8 and Razor both have a tight-ish eye box on max magnification, but the Razor is substantially easier for me to use at 1x. I could not ever get the diopter on the NX8 set where I got a true 1x and on one sample I had I almost always had a double vision issue. The Razor also has a more useful reticle with wind holds and a more usable center dot.

The Gen 3 Razor can also be had at the same price as the NX8, or at least within a few hundred dollars.

If you it will be living on a 14.5" or longer gun I'd go with the Razor. If you are putting this on an SBR and want as small and light a package as possible, the NX8 is still a great choice. I have a Kahles K16i on my 12.5" SBR though and would recommend that over the NX8 also for about the same price and weight.

[Eyesquared]

Don't know how much time you have on the NX8 but from what I've heard the exit pupil is relatively unforgiving on 1x compared to other 1-8x scopes. NF says 7.9mm on 1x, PA platinum and the NF ATACR are around 11mm IIRC. I don't think Vortex publishes a number for the 1-10 but from what I've heard it's comparable to the ATACR.

Couple guys I know got NX8s and were not impressed with that and the optical quality for the price (highly subjective, to be fair). One of them also had to back out the diopter adjustment significantly and it kept moving on him. Really ends up depending a lot on how much you value the 1x performance VS the weight. One guy joked that NF made a light/small scope and forgot to make it usable.

[mrozowjj]

I've now had a chance to play around some with the Razor Gen III 1-10x24.

What I don't like:

• Eye relief/eye box. At 1x it is fine and stays pretty forgiving up to about 5x or 6x. At the higher end it does get a little tight and touchy with regard to cheek weld and head placement. An issue overcome with practice? Probably.
• Focus. Setting the image so it is crystal clear at 1x seemed to result in a slightly blurry image at 10x. Conversely setting the focus at 10x resulted in a blurry image at 1x. I assume most of this is based on no parallax adjustment and needing to figure out what distance (100 meters?) is best for an overall focus.

Is the Razor worth the purchase over something like the NX8 1-8? Hard to say but probably not. I'd say the difference in size and weight (and slightly lower cost) probably makes the NX8 the better product. And I think a person can pretty easily make the case that the difference between 8x and 9x or 10x becomes mostly academic.

Those are the two things I found annoying and why I came to the same conclusion as you. I asked myself "Do I need 9 and 10x when the eyebox is so tight I have no wiggle room?" and I answered no so I stuck with my NX8.

So is the NX8 still the scope to beat? At $1700-1800?
https://www.amazon.com/NightForce-1-.../dp/B094DH3ZHV

Is there something *almost* as good for under $1k that doesn't make up the lower price by adding weight?

Well if you are not in a hurry and willing to basically spend your free time scouring the boards the NX8 will turn up on AR15.com EE or Sniper Hide for sell sections for $1400-1500 range every so often. They go quick so you'll have to decide how much your time is worth. (i.e. if you are willing to spend your time checking those forums to get luck enough to be the first person to reply vs just spending 100-200 more to get it new.)

For something almost as good I really like my Delta Stryker 1-6. I got it a few weeks ago and finally had a chance to shoot with it on sunday and it is quite nice if you are willing to live with a 1-6 instead of a 1-8 it's really good. I would very seriously consider putting it on my main gun and selling my NX8 but the NX8 is known to be basically bomb proof and this is a new scope from a new company so I'm not sure if it has the same level of durability. Anyone know how durable these scopes really are?

If you are willing to live with 1-6 and the added weight the Vortex Razor Gen 2 is still top notch and can be had for sub $1000 from time to time if you wait for a deal; places like scopelist have refurbs sometimes for $900-ish.

[rob_s]

For something almost as good I really like my Delta Stryker 1-6. I got it a few weeks ago and finally had a chance to shoot with it on sunday and it is quite nice if you are willing to live with a 1-6 instead of a 1-8 it's really good. I would very seriously consider putting it on my main gun and selling my NX8 but the NX8 is known to be basically bomb proof and this is a new scope from a new company so I'm not sure if it has the same level of durability. Anyone know how durable these scopes really are?

If you are willing to live with 1-6 and the added weight the Vortex Razor Gen 2 is still top notch and can be had for sub $1000 from time to time if you wait for a deal; places like scopelist have refurbs sometimes for $900-ish.

Me personally, I'd say my list of requirements is something like

1. price <$1k
2. Weight <18oz
3. "daylight bright"
4. "true" 1x
5. something
6. something else
7. another thing
8. some other stuff
9. a thing I can't remember
10. a thing I forgot
11. one other thing
12. top-end magnification over 6x

[Tokarev]

Me personally, I'd say my list of requirements is something like

[*]price <$1k=Viper or Steiner[*]Weight <18oz=Steiner is close [*]"daylight bright" Viper or Steiner[*]"true" 1×=Viper[*]top-end magnification over 6x ....

3/5 of the requirements met by the PST Gen II or the P4xi.


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[mrozowjj]

Me personally, I'd say my list of requirements is something like

1. price <$1k
2. Weight <18oz
3. "daylight bright"
4. "true" 1x
5. something
6. something else
7. another thing
8. some other stuff
9. a thing I can't remember
10. a thing I forgot
11. one other thing
12. top-end magnification over 6x

Well you should check out the Delta Stryker 1-6. If you lived close to the PNW I'd offer to let you check the one I have out. Imagine the PX4 with a slightly better reticle and a 6x top end.