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Thread: LPVOs in 2023 and beyond

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I love my Elcan 1-4. I’ve beat it up pretty hard. The glass and brightness are stunning. If I had to choose one carbine optic, this would probably be it.
    I have used Elcans on a variety of rifles and machine guns. I have seen them fielded on a large scale. I have seen them fail on a large scale.

  2. #212
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEW8338 View Post
    I have used Elcans on a variety of rifles and machine guns. I have seen them fielded on a large scale. I have seen them fail on a large scale.
    Check.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrozowjj View Post
    The Primary Arms ACSS model of holosun? Yeah their website is incredibly misleading. They show you this rather large chevron but when you get it what you see is a small oval insted of a chevron. If you get the brightness setting just right for the light conditions you are shooting in you might get the chevron but in almost every real world use case you get a oval. To say I ws disappointed in that would be an understatment. Propbly returned it.
    Yes - specifically the “Holosun Paralow HS503G Red Dot Sight - ACSS CQB Reticle”. Looking at the images on the website after using mine, the representation of the reticle superimposed on the FOV (as if looking through the tube) are pretty accurate. I just didn’t imagine that it was really that small.
    Wearing glasses to correct my slight astigmatism, and with the sight set dim enough to not bloom, the reticle is pretty clear. I just found that shooting an 8” bull at 100 yds, I was trying to “put a really small thing on a really small thing.”
    I’m hoping that a x3 magnifier, it will be easier to use. And hoping that, with the option to flip the magnifier to the side, or remove it via QD mount), I’ll retain lots of flexibility without making the rifle too much heavier full time.

  4. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by KEW8338 View Post
    I have used Elcans on a variety of rifles and machine guns. I have seen them fielded on a large scale. I have seen them fail on a large scale.
    Interesting. I like my Aimpoint + magnifier set up and it is very much like an Elcan, 1X or 3X, take your pick. One good point would be that if one fails it does not render the other useless. I don't know how rugged the Aimpoint mag is but the Comp M4 is considered very rugged. I also have back up irons just in case.

  5. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by 19852+ View Post
    Interesting. I like my Aimpoint + magnifier set up and it is very much like an Elcan, 1X or 3X, take your pick. One good point would be that if one fails it does not render the other useless. I don't know how rugged the Aimpoint mag is but the Comp M4 is considered very rugged. I also have back up irons just in case.
    I don't think an Aimpoint with a magnifier is comparable to a SpecterDR. The big issue is light transmission and FOV.

    The SpecterDR is going to have far superior light transmission compared to the Aimpoint combined with a magnifier; I don't know the light transmission of the SpecterDR, but even Elcan's most vocal detractors will grudgingly admit that they have excellent optics (many high quality LPVOs are >90%, so I would wager most Elcans are, too). Most duty oriented Aimpoints have 70% light transmission (the H-series only have 60%), while the duty oriented Aimpoint magnifiers have 75% light transmission (don't know what the EOTechs are, but I would imagine similar); in series this would mean 52.5% light transmission, which means that the SpecterDR will destroy an Aimpoint RDS/magnifier combo under low-light conditions.

    Then there's FOV; the SpecterDR at 4× has a larger FOV (6.5°) than the Aimpoint 3X-C (6°), while only slightly beaten by the 3XMag-1 (7°) or the EOTech G33 (7.3°), G30 (7.3°), or G43(7.5°) while still providing better magnification. Not great for the magnifiers.

    That being said, as noted, the SpecterDR has a lot of perceived flaws (some of which have allegedly been fixed, such as the zero shift that occurs when switching magnifications), so while they definitely have some hardcore supporters within institutions (including folks that have used them extensively operationally), there's a lot more detractors with very valid concerns. I personally also stick with an RDS/magnifier combo on my 11.5"; my LPVOs are on my 14.5" AR-15 and 16" SR-25, which are oriented for further distances. I definitely feel that RDS/magnifiers fulfill a different role than the LPVO; the RDS/magnifier is when I am primarily focused on close-range shooting, with some ability to get some magnification, while the LPVO is more of a jack-of-all-trades, with equal emphasis on close range versus magnification.

  6. #216
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    LPVOs in 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    I don't think an Aimpoint with a magnifier is comparable to a SpecterDR. The big issue is light transmission and FOV.

    The SpecterDR is going to have far superior light transmission compared to the Aimpoint combined with a magnifier; I don't know the light transmission of the SpecterDR, but even Elcan's most vocal detractors will grudgingly admit that they have excellent optics
    My SpecterDR is optically outstanding. I once calculated the effect f-number for it, and if I recall it was better than f1.0. I can see better in low light through the optic on 1x than with my naked eye.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  7. #217
    Optically I have no qualms with the Elcans.

    Reticles are mehh. But I understand the thought process behind specific ones which I cant argue with.

    The mounts are garbage. ARMS inc is notorious for promoting missed opportunities.

    The throw lever is lacking durability and stability.

    For those using Aimpoint magnifiers. Be mindful of parallax issues. If you notice zero shifts between magnified and non magnified, just make sure its repeatable.

  8. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by breakingtime91 View Post
    So a magnifier is great, until it isn't. It is only 3x magnification and while it helps it doesn't give me hold overs with the h2 or anything past 100 yards to provide a really good PID. If I can get hold overs, good magnification for PID, and its durable I want it. Red dots are great and they are great tools, but so are LPVOS and I really want this gun to have the ability to allow me to assess what is a threat and what isn't given the current climate in the united states.
    Not to mention the fact that all red dots will have zero shift to varying degrees once you flip on or attach the magnifier.
    This is something that is not often discussed whenever this topic comes up but it is a real concern. Which leads me to question whether or not people actually confirm their zero magnified and unmagnified.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickeness View Post
    Not to mention the fact that all red dots will have zero shift to varying degrees once you flip on or attach the magnifier.
    This is something that is not often discussed whenever this topic comes up but it is a real concern. Which leads me to question whether or not people actually confirm their zero magnified and unmagnified.
    The assumption is the magnifier will be used at greater distance so normal practice is to zero with the magnifier and just note the shift without it since it’s less of an issue at closer ranges. Like suppressors, the key is to ensure the shift is consistent.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickeness View Post
    Not to mention the fact that all red dots will have zero shift to varying degrees once you flip on or attach the magnifier.
    This is something that is not often discussed whenever this topic comes up but it is a real concern. Which leads me to question whether or not people actually confirm their zero magnified and unmagnified.
    I actually did not know this. I've only used one magnifier and the zero didn't seem to shift all that much but I only confirmed at 100 yards.

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