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Thread: LPVOs in 2023 and beyond

  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by msstate56 View Post
    I absolutely love my Mark 5 scopes on precision rifles, but Leupold is dead to me as far as LPVOS go. Until they figure out daylight bright, and 1x in a new scope- I don’t even consider looking at Leupold.
    They've certainly had their share of innovations. The CQ/T was a good early entrant into the LVPO market. It was followed up by the CQB/SS which was another scope that made the market sit up and take notice. These were followed by the LCO and the DEVO. Both were good optics but the LCO was too expensive when compared to everything else and the DEVO? Not sure why it didn't really catch on although it was launched at a time when red dots+magnifiers was sort of no longer a thing.

    Anyway, is the lack of 1x at the low end really a deal breaker if the optic performs in other areas? Good light transmission, ability to handle some abuse and hold zero, light weight and affordable price are all attractive features. I assume the fire dot reticle will be as bright as the one used in the VX-R Patrol.

    I have one of the old Mark 4 MRT scopes that was another early entry into LPVO. It is 1.5x on its low end. It didn't really take long for my dominant eye to get used to having a bit of magnification when running it like a red dot up close. Where I did see some challenge was while shooting left shoulder/left eye. Closing my right eye while shooting support side fixed it but closing my dominant eye also takes some getting used to.

    Lots of unknowns for the Mark 3 stuff as of now. As I said above, the lack of 1x will likely kill it even if that's somewhat of a marketing issue rather than strictly a performance issue.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post

    Anyway, is the lack of 1x at the low end really a deal breaker if the optic performs in other areas?

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    With all the other options out there? Yes it’s most certainly a deal breaker. It’s not like Leupold doesn’t know how to make a 1x-6(ish). It’s like they purposely won’t try. The firedot reticle on the VX-R was nice, but I can’t stand the push button illumination control. The Mark 5 and 6 both use an “industry standard” rotary dial, with off in between each setting.

    I swear Leupold is either intentionally sabotaging themselves, or they really are that clueless as to what the market wants. The Mark 5 line is stellar, everything else? No thanks.

  3. #263
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate56 View Post
    I swear Leupold is either intentionally sabotaging themselves, or they really are that clueless as to what the market wants. The Mark 5 line is stellar, everything else? No thanks.
    I've tried to understand this as well. It's puzzling, given some really smart people I know there. I've heard it said that hunting and cush .mil contracts drive most of their product development.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  4. #264
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    ... is the lack of 1x at the low end really a deal breaker if the optic performs in other areas?
    Definitely for me, it is a dealbreaker. My requirements: Daylight bright illumination, true, bright 1x, mil/mil FFP with a usable reticle, and <20oz.

    I do not care about magnification above 6x.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  5. #265
    Site Supporter dontshakepandas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Definitely for me, it is a dealbreaker. My requirements: Daylight bright illumination, true, bright 1x, mil/mil FFP with a usable reticle, and <20oz.

    I do not care about magnification above 6x.
    It's a dealbreaker for me too. As is not having daylight bright illumination.

    My reticle preference depends on the intended use though. For general purpose or mostly close engagements but some far, I prefer a SFP reticle and don't need over 6x. I like SFP better for this usage since I can pick the reticle up easier without illumination if needed. For more precision based or "more far away but some close engagements" I prefer FFP and I'll take magnification over 6x if I can get it.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    .mil contracts drive most of their product development.
    This makes me wonder if the Mark 3 was designed to meet a military or government requirement. This might be (part of at least) the answer given some of the retro specs.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Tokarev; 04-20-2021 at 08:34 PM.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Definitely for me, it is a dealbreaker. My requirements: Daylight bright illumination, true, bright 1x, mil/mil FFP with a usable reticle, and <20oz.

    I do not care about magnification above 6x.
    Just curious;

    What scope fits that bill? ATACR and Razor 3 kinda fit that.

    Why daylight bright?

    Why true 1x?

    Why go mil/mil/FFP, then limit to 6x?

  8. #268
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Good questions. My carbines are used for home / backcountry defense and "practical" competitive shooting.

    The ATACR 1-8 is an excellent scope, but very spendy. The new S&B 1-8 looks like it may be the one scope to rule them all, but at nearly $5k it better be. Have a look at this review for what my perfect LPVO looks like. I will not be buying one unless I win the lottery.
    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...chmidt-bender/

    The EOTech Vudu 1-6 with the SR-1 reticle is my favorite LPVO for the money right now. It checks all the boxes for around $1200, and can be had significantly cheaper on sale.
    https://www.cstactical.com/eotech-vu...ffp-riflescope

    I haven't had time behind any of the 1-10x scopes yet, but am skeptical. Every 8x or 10x scope I have used comes with significant optical tradeoffs--especially a cramped eye box. I would take a wide, bright 1x in a 6x scope any day over a 10x without that.

    Daylight bright illumination and true 1x. I want my carbine scope to perform nearly as well at 1x as an Aimpoint or MRO. I have to be able to shoot both eyes open with target focus, move with rifle mounted, fast target transitions, etc. All the things you need to do for high hit factor shooting with a carbine.

    Mil/mil: I do not use MOA scopes because there's no reason to. A BDC style scope can be useful though, but I still prefer mil turrets.

    FFP: I want to be able to use reticle holdoffs for elevation and windage at magnifications ranging from ~3x to max. This is especially important for moving targets.

    Quote Originally Posted by KEW8338 View Post
    Just curious;

    What scope fits that bill? ATACR and Razor 3 kinda fit that.

    Why daylight bright?

    Why true 1x?

    Why go mil/mil/FFP, then limit to 6x?
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Good questions. My carbines are used for home / backcountry defense and "practical" competitive shooting.

    The ATACR 1-8 is an excellent scope, but very spendy. The new S&B 1-8 looks like it may be the one scope to rule them all, but at nearly $5k it better be. Have a look at this review for what my perfect LPVO looks like. I will not be buying one unless I win the lottery.
    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...chmidt-bender/

    The EOTech Vudu 1-6 with the SR-1 reticle is my favorite LPVO for the money right now. It checks all the boxes for around $1200, and can be had significantly cheaper on sale.
    https://www.cstactical.com/eotech-vu...ffp-riflescope

    I haven't had time behind any of the 1-10x scopes yet, but am skeptical. Every 8x or 10x scope I have used comes with significant optical tradeoffs--especially a cramped eye box. I would take a wide, bright 1x in a 6x scope any day over a 10x without that.

    Daylight bright illumination and true 1x. I want my carbine scope to perform nearly as well at 1x as an Aimpoint or MRO. I have to be able to shoot both eyes open with target focus, move with rifle mounted, fast target transitions, etc. All the things you need to do for high hit factor shooting with a carbine.

    Mil/mil: I do not use MOA scopes because there's no reason to. A BDC style scope can be useful though, but I still prefer mil turrets.

    FFP: I want to be able to use reticle holdoffs for elevation and windage at magnifications ranging from ~3x to max. This is especially important for moving targets.
    The reticle in that schmidt looks terrible. Nor has schmidt ever impressed me.

    I do not have the most amount of time behind the Razor III. Using it a little. I am impressed with it.

    Perform as well as an aimpoint/eotech etc is more a matter of training than the gear. There are things in specific LVPOs that lend themselves to easier use doing this.

    Fast target transitions is going to come from a rock solid index and visual maturity.

    I am all about Mils

    ETA:

    What I care about, outside of the normal stuff, in no particular order
    -Box testing the adjustments
    -Field of view
    -Reticle set up

    Weight and daylight bright illum dont do much for me
    Last edited by KEW8338; 04-21-2021 at 01:13 PM.

  10. #270
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEW8338 View Post
    The reticle in that schmidt looks terrible. Nor has schmidt ever impressed me.
    Check. Reticles are a very personal thing.

    My PM2 5-25 MSR is the best scope I have owned, or used.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

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