How is Kahr P380 and PM9093

[HeavyDuty]

I am living in kalifornia, G42, 43 are not an option. I am not ruling out the bigger ones. I cannot buy one until 3/5/21, so I have time to talk!!!

Sure they are. Just not from a dealer.

[TGS]

Ha ha, my goal is to buy more guns!! That's the reason I am open to everything.

If you can't articulate a specific need/use for these micro-compact and sub-compact guns, I would suggest not buying one. They're not fun to shoot, and all else equal are usually less reliable or more finicky than their compact and full size counterparts.

[Alan0354]

If you can't articulate a specific need/use for these micro-compact and sub-compact guns, I would suggest not buying one. They're not fun to shoot, and all else equal are usually less reliable or more finicky than their compact and full size counterparts.

Agree, I pretty much rule those Kahr, Ruger LCP out already. I start with Ruger LC380 as the smallest. I am not even sure I am comfortable with Glock 43. For 9mm, I even worry a little whether my Glock 26 is on the small side.

Yes, from experience and from going through a lot of youtubes and all, power, light weight and small size don't go along.

[zaitcev]

My experience with Kahr is limited, but I'm not going to let it stop me from forming and sharing an opinion. Here it is: the mechanical design has no allowance built in.

In simple words, if you compare Kahs to peer guns in the same caliber, you'll find that the Kahr either has a longer barrel or is smaller. And, it's almost always flatter (unless we compare it with something extreme like Pico). It appears that the space efficiency was more important than reliability.

One result of this quest for compactness is that the feed path on a Kahr is steeper than on other guns, slide overtravel is smaller, which places more demand on magazines. Meanwhile, their factory is unable to maintain the precision and consistency required to make it all work. Result is a gamut of guns that go from amazing to complete lemons and everything in between, depending of the shooter's luck and the way tolerances stacked.

BTW, I had barrel whack followers too. But my followers never cracked. The problem with that was that sometimes it caused magazines to drop, if barrel hit the follower so well that it unseat the magazine latch.

Still, if they ever make a T45, I'm buying one :-)

[MattyD380]

Aside from own experience, everything I’ve read about Kahr is just anecdotal testimony from here and there around the internet (forums and such)... but...

I’ve rarely read of issues with the K9. Or P9. The P380, however, seems to be (often) a train wreck. The PM9 seems mostly good, but sometimes not.

I don’t think the K9 was dropped from the NYPD because it didn’t work. I read that they asked Kahr to give the gun a 12lb trigger pull. Rather than re-engineer the trigger, they said no. Or something like that.

Anyway...

I feel like the K9 (which is the original Kahr design) is fairly proven. Maybe not, like, Beretta 92 proven... but I guess as proven as 25 year old micro gun can be.

Also, I’d love to have a T9.

[Navin Johnson]

The K9 and P9 I'm sure sell far less than the PM9 or PM 380.

The p9 is as big or bigger than a shield or a g43 so why bother.

The PM9 is probably the smallest 9mm that has a chance of functioning properly.

The NYPD had problems with trigger springs failing a lot on the Kahr's

They are also quite expensive.

I was into them before the g43 or LC9 or shield etc.

Would take my chances on the G42 before a PM9 understanding the many drawbacks of a 380.

YMMV.

[Alan0354]

The K9 and P9 I'm sure sell far less than the PM9 or PM 380.

The p9 is as big or bigger than a shield or a g43 so why bother.

The PM9 is probably the smallest 9mm that has a chance of functioning properly.

The NYPD had problems with trigger springs failing a lot on the Kahr's

They are also quite expensive.

I was into them before the g43 or LC9 or shield etc.

Would take my chances on the G42 before a PM9 understanding the many drawbacks of a 380.

YMMV.

How's your Ruger LC9? I can buy LC380 that can be converted to LC9.

[Catshooter]

For me the things that set the P380 out from other 380 was the fact that you can get real sights and real night sights for them. That and they shoot. With a Lothar Walther barrel, they can shoot. Mine will keep most rounds inside 2.5 inches at 25 yards. And mine functions just fine.


Cat

[MattyD380]

I find my K9 very accurate as well. It will produce extremely tight groups. And the trigger is... not quite like anything else. For me, this is what sets it apart from a Shield, PPS, G43, etc.

[iWander]

Considering the Kahr PM9s recoil spring is supposed to be replaced every 1200-1500 rounds or so, it sounds like you caused the gun to fail prematurely through abuse/lack of preventative maintenance.

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@Alan0354

I had a Kahr P380 and still have a PM9. Given the P380's outstanding trigger, small size, excellent sights and good looks, it would be the best micro-compact 380 on the market if it would actually run. Several of us here have tried them and couldn't get them to run worth shit....I think the most number of rounds I could ever get mine to do without a malfunction was around 30. One guy here, @JodyH , even had 3 or so replacement guns from Kahr.

The PM9 is the smallest Kahr I would consider, and also the smallest 9mm on the market I would consider buying. Mine has been reliable. However, realize that Kahrs were among the first generation of micro 9mm guns, and gun companies have learned things since then.

They are hit or miss whether you get a good one. I was extremely lucky in that mine not only works great, but also works great with the extended 7-round mag. Many PM9s which work okay will still have trouble functioning with the extended mag.

The Kahr PM9 is the smallest 9mm you can get that is still reliable, but the slightly larger Glock 43 and SIG P365 are more sure bets if you are not beholden to the PM9's uniquely small size. I wanted it as a pocket and ankle gun, and it was the smallest gun on my agency's approved personally owned weapons list. If the SIG P365 or Glock 43 had existed at that time and were on the list, I would have bought one of those instead.

+1 Everything TGS said. I carried a PM9, P9 or K9 Kahr for over 20 years until the P365 was released and shown reliable. The PM9 was my favorite and my full time EDC & BUG at work. It worked perfectly AIWB, OWB, in a good pocket holster and on the ankle. It also recoiled less and was easier to shoot than my wife's G43s. I've never had an issue with the 6 Kahrs I owned as long as I kept them clean and followed the replacement parts schedule. The light, smooth, revolver-like trigger was perfect for it's intended purpose and the full-sized sights made accurate shooting easy. I'd highly recommend a PM9 if you want the slimmest, smallest, most reliable 9mm possible.

If size isn't as much of a factor, go for the P365XL. It handles and shoots like a much larger, heavier gun and the samples I've shot are very accurate. I would've bought one instead of my regular 365 if they were available then.

I don't care for polymer .380 guns as I've never seen any of them run reliably for any length of time and the sights and relative size make accurate shooting difficult beyond 15'. Qualifying cops and CCW holders consistently have issues and breakages with them. That includes ALL the Rugers, the Pico, Keltecs, Kahrs, Taurus, S&W, etc. The ONLY polymer .380 I'd recommend is a current production G42. The sights are usable and the recoil almost non-existent.

Good luck!