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Thread: No more LEM?

  1. #101
    Weather is crap today, no outdoors shooting. Hence no videos.

    First five shots to check POA, 8 yards.

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    First draw, same distance, 4 inch circle, outta Shaggy

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    I ran 2 Bill Drills, both at 2.4x with 1.3x draw. I fucked one up by gripping gun wrong and putting everything right of A zone. Second run was better. I also shot a 5.13 FAST on USPSA target and missed upper A both times. I tried a Garcia dot, just one, and missed three shots, all high.

    I capped it at 38 rounds, noting that I got a trigger trough bite for the first time ever, which I thought was a good sign, that I need new side panels since old ones are smooth after 26K rounds, and that I couldn't get under .20 splits. This being a 4 years hiatus from LEM, I didn't get enough sadness from my performance to justify an extra drink tonight. @GJM reminded me that my LEM wasn't really LEM but a special needs LEM with all that trigger work on it; in my defense, I think it is all available much easier these days.

    I shot a variant of a lightweight .45 1911 with a carry trigger for the rest of my session, and that did induce a lot more sadness.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  2. #102
    The fast splits part of the LEM trigger is sort of a side show, since we don’t need sub .20 splits for EDC. The real question for me is what is the difference in splits to make an accurate shot at various distances on various side targets. If there is no difference in aimed shots is different than if the LEM takes longer to make the same shot. My experience is all shots take longer.

    The transition from the LEM P2000 to the 47/19 for CBP will be an interesting case study in the perceived people management benefits of the LEM trigger. If the CBP starts shooting a bunch of people and themselves by accident, that will tell us something. You would expect these errors to show up especially early, given a new transition, and perhaps settle down later as they get more familiar with a striker.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #103
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    The fast splits part of the LEM trigger is sort of a side show, since we don’t need sub .20 splits for EDC. The real question for me is what is the difference in splits to make an accurate shot at various distances on various side targets. If there is no difference in aimed shots is different than if the LEM takes longer to make the same shot. My experience is all shots take longer.

    The transition from the LEM P2000 to the 47/19 for CBP will be an interesting case study in the perceived people management benefits of the LEM trigger. If the CBP starts shooting a bunch of people and themselves by accident, that will tell us something. You would expect these errors to show up especially early, given a new transition, and perhaps settle down later as they get more familiar with a striker.
    I think if this were the 1980s, you'd see that......but trigger finger discipline is widely understood and taught these days so you're not going to see it like the 80's/90's with agencies switching from revolvers to Glocks. Lots of agencies over the last decade in particular have gone from DA guns to SFAs (mine included), and it hasn't been accompanied with a rise in NDs so I wouldn't expect any different with CBP going from LEM to SFA.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I think if this were the 1980s, you'd see that......but trigger finger discipline is widely understood and taught these days so you're not going to see it like the 80's/90's with agencies switching from revolvers to Glocks. Lots of agencies over the last decade in particular have gone from DA guns to SFAs (mine included), and it hasn't been accompanied with a rise in NDs so I wouldn't expect any different with CBP going from LEM to SFA.
    LASD had a problem going from Berettas to M&Ps. We had an administrator try to use that as an excuse to stop our transition from USPs to Glocks at my old agency. We didn't have any issues after our transition, but we weren't riding the trigger with our H&Ks like a lot of LASD guys evidently were with the Berettas.

    In fact, the Weapons Training Unit analysis found in all but two of the thirty-one 2014 unintended discharge incidents, the employee had his finger on the trigger when the firearm discharged. The two exceptions occurred when an object, a coat hook and a portable radio antenna, respectively, caught on the trigger of an M&P pistol. The authors of the analysis noted that until 2002, LASD personnel were trained, “on target, on trigger,” meaning that as a deputy is pointing his or her Beretta 92F at a target the finger would be on the trigger. According to interviews we conducted, in 2002, the training curriculum was updated so that deputies were taught to keep their trigger finger along the frame of the pistol and off the trigger until he or she made the decision to shoot. According to the Weapons Training Unit report, older deputies often kept the prior learned practice of resting their finger on the trigger, despite the new training. The report’s authors concluded “that the practice of ‘riding the trigger’ has resulted in an increase in unintentional discharges.”
    https://oig.lacounty.gov/Portals/OIG...e%20Report.pdf

  5. #105
    Pretty sure every CBP agent already owns a Glock or an M&P anyway.

  6. #106
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    The fast splits part of the LEM trigger is sort of a side show, since we don’t need sub .20 splits for EDC. The real question for me is what is the difference in splits to make an accurate shot at various distances on various side targets. If there is no difference in aimed shots is different than if the LEM takes longer to make the same shot. My experience is all shots take longer.

    The transition from the LEM P2000 to the 47/19 for CBP will be an interesting case study in the perceived people management benefits of the LEM trigger. If the CBP starts shooting a bunch of people and themselves by accident, that will tell us something. You would expect these errors to show up especially early, given a new transition, and perhaps settle down later as they get more familiar with a striker.
    I’ve seen a couple of NDs during our switch from M9’s to M17’s. But as far as I could tell they were non dedicated shooters.

    P.S. the more I shoot the M17 the more I hate it.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  7. #107
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I'm a 1911 guy, so it sits too high to me.

    That said, yea if I can't find an LEM HK45CT later this year when I'm in the market a TDA carried Condition 1 will be my second choice.
    My issue with the TDA 45c cocked and locked was I would occasionally decock the pistol when all I wanted to do was take it off safe. TDA wasn’t terrible once broken in. I used grease on the hammer parts and would leave the hammer in the cocked position for a few days at a time. It really wasn’t that bad after it broken in.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  8. #108
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    My issue with the TDA 45c cocked and locked was I would occasionally decock the pistol when all I wanted to do was take it off safe. TDA wasn’t terrible once broken in. I used grease on the hammer parts and would leave the hammer in the cocked position for a few days at a time. It really wasn’t that bad after it broken in.
    That's the reason that HK moved the decocker to the rear of the slide on the P-30. Very weird but I guess it works if you can get used to it. Another reason for V1 LEM. No decocker.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by javemtr View Post
    In your view, what revolutionary developments in the use and safety of carry triggers has happened in the last 20 years that makes LEM obsolete today?
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I think if this were the 1980s, you'd see that......but trigger finger discipline is widely understood and taught these days so you're not going to see it like the 80's/90's with agencies switching from revolvers to Glocks. Lots of agencies over the last decade in particular have gone from DA guns to SFAs (mine included), and it hasn't been accompanied with a rise in NDs so I wouldn't expect any different with CBP going from LEM to SFA.
    Proper training and gun handling. That is what happened in the last 20 years.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    My issue with the TDA 45c cocked and locked was I would occasionally decock the pistol when all I wanted to do was take it off safe. TDA wasn’t terrible once broken in. I used grease on the hammer parts and would leave the hammer in the cocked position for a few days at a time. It really wasn’t that bad after it broken in.
    Have you considered changing it to V9? The detent plate is like 15 USD shipped and takes like 30 seconds to swap out with a hammer and punch.

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