Perhaps it took that long to realize that it was a solution to no problem?Originally Posted by javemtr
Look, I had a few LEM pistols back in the days. I spent a lot of time shooting them. I like HK pistols a lot. LEM however, was a misstep in my opinion. I understand this is not a popular opinion here.
In Germany, it strongly exists as service pistol trigger. The P30 LEM is the most frequent police pistol here. Federal Police ("Bundespolizei") is its biggest user (38,500 pistols). Then Hesse State Police (16k) and customs (14k). Also KSK and military police ("Feldjäger") use it. But it seems, the SFP9 is overtaking it here.
The P30 is also strong as a service pistol in Switzerland and Norway, the richest European countries (whatever that tells).
Last edited by P30; 02-13-2021 at 03:38 AM.
That is very true, but as you say, SFP9 is making significant gains in all those areas as well (rightfully so). The sad reality is that LEM was never able to establish itself as a viable alternative to striker-fired pistols in the civilian market. Whether that is because it is an inferior trigger (strictly from a usability perspective) or because not enough users 'have seen the light' and accepted LEM as the perfect combination of safety and reliability, I don't know.
I'm surprised simply because HK is the mac-daddy of maintaining archaic, incongruous product lines that the market isn't interested in.
Who actually buys the Mark 23 they still have in production? Or how about a USP with a useless proprietary rail, anyone? Any other manufacturer would have updated the USP frame molds by now and maintained the older proprietary rail molds in storage for agency replacement/supplement contract runs. HK decided to not do anything useful, however, and maintains a pistol with an objective handicap that prevents it from participating in most modern pistol tenders.
So, I'm surprised simply for that fact alone. If any other company owned the LEM system, I wouldn't be surprised...I'm just surprised because HK is doing something that actually makes sense.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
I think the LEM is a superb system. I fully recognize that I simply won't be able to shoot it as fast as most of the other competitive trigger systems (and I'm certainly not the fastest shooter period), but I'm not any slower with it than I am with my DAO Beretta 92D or a revolver.
Where LEM shines is as a duty/threat management action. Dagga Boy has laid out its benefits exceptionally well, and it is very much a standard duty gun choice for me. I also like the tailorability of the system with parts and spring substitutions, and that these action differentations wan be accomplished essentially without gunsmithing or component modifications necessary.
As others have mentioned, it's also exceptionally user safety oriented- with its long triggerpull, visible hammer and self-decocking action. The fewer manipulations necessary during, or after use in an adrenelain-fueled situation, the better in my opinion.
My P30L V1.5 carries well as a duty gun, self defense gun, and in IDPA. Yes, I'm as accurate, and faster with my VP, but that's not the point for me in the venues where I choose to equip myself with the LEM P30L.
Best, Jon
1) since HK pistols are so durable, the couple of dozen LEM a pistols I have would last many lifetimes. Who remembers an HK part, besides a TRS, actually breaking? Since LEM is not a distinct model, but just a trigger option, I don’t see support going away anytime soon, as long as HK stays in business.
2) there was a time, HK pistols were the most accurate and reliable pistols available, and you sucked it up and took the HK trigger as part of that deal. These days, pistols are so reliable and accurate, HK isn’t the only option in that regard. That has made the trigger, and not reliability/accuracy, the distinguishing characteristic between different brands. HK understands this with the VP9, which is a trigger first HK model.
3) the thread on this on HK Pro has only had 15 comments in four days — in years past the loyal would have practically been protesting outside HK USA demanding the LEM trigger stay forever. The LEM base is probably at its smallest since LEM was introduced.
4) I still think the match hybrid LEM trigger on the USP FS 45 is the best hammer trigger HK offers, and an ideal trigger for an ideal field pistol.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Are they submitting anything for modern pistol tenders besides the P30s and VP9s?
I assumed the USP was in the same boat as the Mark 23: for the HK collector market only. They're trading on 90s relevance and nostalgia, so any major change (i.e. new rail) would be viewed as a negative. And also probably cut into their P30 sales. I assume the batches they make for 23s, USPs and now P2000s are smaller and more infrequent than the P30 and VP9, so cannibalizing the product lines is going to hurt their already weak ability to meet actual demand.
The problem with LEM is that’s it’s difficult to shoot in sanitary conditions, but induce some stress and bullets go everydamnwhere.
It’s an expensive Glock NY trigger. Nobody messes with that garbage anymore either.
Has there ever been a point where HK did not sell every LEM gun that they make? Is there some stash of unwanted and unloved surplus somewhere collecting dust because no one wants the design? The way I remember it is that if you want one, you had better jump on it when you see one because they won't be around long, even before the current craziness. In fact, I do not ever recall the supply exceeding the demand, even in the used market. Maybe it's possible that HK (and others) have underestimated the market potential for it?
The information from the original post on the HK site mentioned the V3 DA/SA model will still be produced. Aside from the small notch in the V3 frame to allow for the decocker (which is optional using the LEM trigger parts), it's the same design. Change out a few parts and V3 becomes V2 very easily; but a V2 can't become a V3 without modifying the frame.
Keeping the V3 along with LEM conversion parts seems to be a smart move for HK inventory to keep the best of both trigger systems on a common frame. Who knows - maybe TLG's thoughts on how the hammer parts could be designed as a single drop-in unit could be produced by a third party. One can hope.
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