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Thread: Mantis question

  1. #11
    This is more of a tangent on Doubles drill but IMO my personal crackpot theory is that the low shots on Doubles aren't really what most people call "pre ignition push". It's a bit of a semantics argument but I think the difference is important.

    When most people talk about preignition push, I think the generally accepted definition is that it means mistiming the recoil control push and going early, based on incorrectly predicting the timing of the shot breaking. Sometimes people conflate this with flinching, sometimes they make a distinction between the two, I don't know that it matters for the point I want to discuss.

    Now, thinking abstractly about Doubles drill using that definition above, one might guess at a few plausible patterns of errors (pretend you've never shot Doubles so you don't know what usually happens).
    1. If it's just the mistiming of recoil control, one might expect preignition push to happen equally frequently for all shots fired, regardless if it's the 1st or 2nd shot.
    2. Perhaps there will be an increasing or decreasing trend of preignition push as you go further into an 8 round string, due to either getting more flinchy from shooting, or getting more acclimated to recoil.
    3. Since you are only shooting pairs, and only have to control recoil after the first shot, maybe there should only be preignition push on the 1st shot.

    Now having shot Doubles, I think 99% of shooters experience that the 1st round goes exactly where it's supposed to, and the 2nd round is where the problems happen. Given that this doesn't match any of the preignition push expectations above, I think it's really something else, which I call "post ignition over-pushing" for lack of a better term. It's kind of a nitpicky distinction, but I think it's important because it's really not a timing question (per my theory), it's a question of the magnitude of the push.

  2. #12
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
    Location
    Wokelandia
    Agree. Doubles is great diagnostic tool. Here are the typical reasons my second shots in Doubles are off.

    -high: fire before returning the gun.
    -low: using too much muscle to return the gun.
    -left: overgripping with support hand, or uneven wrist tension. Usually wrist.
    -right: too much strong hand grip, or uneven wrist tension. Usually wrist.

    For me, the answer is: Relax, breathe, focus on support hand grip and equal wrist tension in both hands. But, everyone has to do their own analysis; I don't think the patterns are universal. Back when I could shoot 500+ rounds in a practice session, I purposely altered each variable in my grip, wrist, and elbow support, one by one, watching what happened to the "bullet hose pattern".



    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    This is more of a tangent on Doubles drill but IMO my personal crackpot theory is that the low shots on Doubles aren't really what most people call "pre ignition push". It's a bit of a semantics argument but I think the difference is important.

    When most people talk about preignition push, I think the generally accepted definition is that it means mistiming the recoil control push and going early, based on incorrectly predicting the timing of the shot breaking. Sometimes people conflate this with flinching, sometimes they make a distinction between the two, I don't know that it matters for the point I want to discuss.

    Now, thinking abstractly about Doubles drill using that definition above, one might guess at a few plausible patterns of errors (pretend you've never shot Doubles so you don't know what usually happens).
    1. If it's just the mistiming of recoil control, one might expect preignition push to happen equally frequently for all shots fired, regardless if it's the 1st or 2nd shot.
    2. Perhaps there will be an increasing or decreasing trend of preignition push as you go further into an 8 round string, due to either getting more flinchy from shooting, or getting more acclimated to recoil.
    3. Since you are only shooting pairs, and only have to control recoil after the first shot, maybe there should only be preignition push on the 1st shot.

    Now having shot Doubles, I think 99% of shooters experience that the 1st round goes exactly where it's supposed to, and the 2nd round is where the problems happen. Given that this doesn't match any of the preignition push expectations above, I think it's really something else, which I call "post ignition over-pushing" for lack of a better term. It's kind of a nitpicky distinction, but I think it's important because it's really not a timing question (per my theory), it's a question of the magnitude of the push.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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