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Thread: Help Request: Flashlight Strategy - How Many / Types / Upgrade Plan?

  1. #1

    Help Request: Flashlight Strategy - How Many / Types / Upgrade Plan?

    Flashlights are one area of my gear preps that have lacked over the years. I want to be more intentional with my money and gear because as time goes on, money may be harder to get, and gear may become more important. I also tend to go a long time between going to Surefire's website, maybe 3 to 4 years between getting interesting over what was announced at SHOT, and I miss a lot of "new" things. For most gear, that's just fine, but I feel like flashlights are one area where new things come out regularly that are worth exploring.

    I'll start by describing what my current "arsenal" of flashlights looks like:

    Big C and D Cell Maglights I upgraded them with malkov LED modules about 5 years ago. I keep one 3-D in the car, one 4-C in my bedroom, and have a 2-D that's a spare at home in my emergency blackout / power outage box. My idea is that I like them for nostalgia, for impact weapon optionality, and for the batteries, since in a grid down scenario, having lights that can work off many different battery types means I am more likely to keep some lights going. I also added "Bust-a-cap" glass breaking tailcaps because it seems worthwhile and are unobtrusive. I really really like these, even though logically I'm probably better off with just 2-CR123 cell surefires and using a kubotan style strike with the bezel if needed.

    Handheld Compact Lights I have one 2-CR123 Surefire frankenstein that started life with maybe a 60 or 120 lumen bezel and got upgraded with a slightly more powerful one hand-me-down from a Scout weapon light. Seems to be a good strategy, the bodies are the same as 2-cell Scouts, and every 5 years or so, I buy new heads for my Scouts as the lumens double due to new tech, and then put the old bezel on my handheld. I keep one in my nightstand and one in my car. I should have a third in my travel bag, but sometimes borrow the nightstand one for air travel. The one in my car is actually some cheap 2-CR123 Inova that is 10 years old by now.

    Weapon Lights Almost all of my long guns have their own surefires on them. Even spare AR uppers have their own surefires. I don't have that many guns, but maybe 6 long guns with weapon mounted lights in total. Mostly older 2-cell Scouts but a couple 1-cell scouts. As a civilian, I don't feel undergunned with even a 200 lumen light. People 10 years ago weren't getting kilt on the streets because 1000 lumen lights didn't exist yet so I'm probably okay with a 1-cell scout. I do have two handgun lights, an older X300 and a XC1. I have an IWB holster that fits a G19 plus XC1, and the reason I don't EDC it is because I'm lazy and EDC a G43. I do like the idea of having an XC1 + Holster available, because perhaps I would use it in some scenarios. I haven't been on a date to the movie theater in years, but maybe I would go out of my way to carry that there. Or perhaps if some kind of antifa thing were happening in my neighborhood at night, I'd try to avoid and shelter in place, but if needed to move about, might put that G19-XC1 in my waistband.

    Headlamps I really really like my Surefire Minimus headlamp, first generation. I bought two and keep one in my toolbag and one in my nightstand. I take it with me when I roadtrip travel by car, and once we had a hotel power outage at night (covering many city blocks), needed to switch hotels to go to one across town, and the headlamp saved my butt since I was able to pack all of my shit and be the first one out of the hotel. I love that it's a single CR123, durable, no external wires, intuitive, twist more for brighter light.

    Keychain Light I have an Arc AAA light on my keychain that's really old, maybe 13 years at this point. It's the only light I EDC other than on my phone. I don't EDC a Surefire 2-CR123. I'm a bad person. But it's all I've needed to get by, and never once in those 13 years did I wish I had a Surefire on me. I only use the keychain light about 4 to 5 times per year. I don't lose my keys under my couch, and if I did, I'd grab my maglight in the bedroom. I don't need to shine a bright light into my parked car in a dark parking garage because that doesn't happen, I've parked in parking garages maybe 3 times in the last decade and all were well lit. I bought a Surefire AAA light about 5 years ago and put it in my air travel bag. Uses the same batteries as my Bose Noise Cancelling Headphones.

    I think I have my bases covered, except I know I should carry a bright 300+ lumen light as EDC, because everyone smart says I should, and it makes sense, but I've never needed one, ever in my life, and I don't like carrying a bunch of shit.

    Back to the purpose of the thread, I'd really like to know:

    What lights make up an appropriate "Arsenal" of lights, how do you determine which ones to pick, and what is the upgrade strategy?

    If you had infinite time and infinite money you could keep track of tactical blogs, social media, SHOT show, and buy every new light that is an incremental upgrade. What's something more reasonable? Suppose right now I decide I have the money and interest to upgrade all my stuff. I'll buy the newest Surefire heads for my existing Scout bodies that output the highest lumens. I'll buy three of whatever the "Best" 2-CR123 Surefire handheld light is, one for my car, my nightstand, and my travel bag. When do I decide to upgrade? Going from 200 lumens to 1000 lumens is probably worth it. That's like how the Supreme Court views porn, I know it when I see it. But can I make a plan now, rather than just excited by the newest shiny thing in the future and throwing money away because of the urge for a temporary dopamine rush?

    That's part of the reason I stopped paying attention, because I was getting too into things that didn't matter. And I don't really need 6 long guns with the newest highest output Surefires. Perhaps two of them can have the newest one, and maybe I have a rotation down strategy. My main two ARs can have the newest heads. And then I pass down the two heads I took off (which were the best heads from 5 years ago) and put those heads on my next two long guns, that are backups to the primary. And then rotate those heads down to the next two long guns which are like if my third cousin comes by to defend my home Red Dawn style and he needs a loaner. Not worth putting the newest best heads on the loaner guns, just lucky to have any lights on those.

    That seems to work for the Surefire long gun WMLs because the scout body is standard and even third parties like Malkov make heads for them.

    The bid daddy maglights are probably fine with my 5 year old Malkov LED upgrades. Probably some newer one exists today but I'm not too excited to throw money down on it.

    Headlamps, perhaps the upgrade strategy there is every 3 to 5 years, I buy the newest iteration of the SF Minimus, which I love my original. And then I take one of my legacy units and add it to a location that lacks a headlamp. Like I don't keep one in my car right now, just in my nightstand and toolbag (very handy for handtool based work), so maybe I buy the newest SF Minimus for my nightstand and put that nightstand one in my car, since an old unit with lower output is better than nothing and it doesn't take up much space in the glovebox.

    I'm rambling and this post got long. Tell me about your lights and how you choose to upgrade them and what you do with the old ones.

  2. #2
    Personally, I've shifted my 'Flashlight Arsenal' toward 'Duel Fuel' flashlights capable of using 18650 rechargeable batteries, while retaining the ability to also run CR123's.



    18650's are the same length as 2xCR123's, but 2mm wider. In addition to being rechargeable, the 18650 holds a lot more energy and is capable of providing longer runtimes at higher outputs.

    This is typical of my 'Arsenal,' all running 18650's:




    Armytek Barracuda Pro = Thrower flashlight, for illuminating things 100-400yd away.

    Armytek Doberman Pro = Tactical/Utility Flashlight. For rifle mounting, for bedside, for car, for blackout lighting when switched to multi mode. A true 'jack of all trades' flashlight.

    Eagletac D25LC2 = EDC flashlight. Slim, easy to carry, very bright, selectable multi mode.

    All my bases are covered, all using the same 18650 battery style, and all capable of running CR123's as a backup.

    Now as far as your priorities...eh. I'd personally snag the Eagletac D25LC2, as its a great EDC light, thats much more compact then a typical surefire. I carry mine IWB at the 8 oclock, so that it doesn't cramp my pocket space. Its also a wonderfully versatile light thats ideal for use as a backup power source in a Blackout.



    See if you like the increase in power and functionality that 18650 modern flashlight provides, and then go from there.

    I'd say upgrading rifle lights is the lowest priority unless you plan on rifle fighting much beyond your home.

    As far as older lights - keep them. They're still just as effective as they ever were; flashlights might have gotten brighter, but the night hasn't gotten any darker. At a minimum, they're good things to have to hand out to less prepared neighbors in a blackout (I've now been in 3 multi day blackouts and 4-5 multi hour blackouts.)
    Last edited by spyderco monkey; 02-07-2021 at 03:22 AM.

  3. #3
    Supporting Business NH Shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire, U.S.A.
    So much depends on one's needs and expectations. In my case I have a substantial collection of lights, but there's only a few that get regular use.

    Also I am a fan of "Lego lights." There is a huge array of bodies, tailcaps, drop-in modules, switches, light carriers, etc. serving the Surefire 3P/6P/9P platform so you can build anything you want for any intended purpose. Malkoff lights are also very Lego using Malkoff tailcaps, bodies and drop-ins. They can use SF tailcaps too. "Non-Legoable" lights are not of much interest to me as they can not be upgraded, reconfigured or in some cases easily repaired. Neither am I a fan of programmable lights, I very much prefer simple operation and bomb-proof construction with critical-use lights.

    In terms of what I use lights for, my first requirement is for a high-quality and dependable EDC light to be used for general administrative tasks. In this case it's a Lego that is made of Malkoff, Oveready and Surefire components. The Malkoff drop-in provides three levels of illumination (20, 100 and 400 lumens). It's powered by an 18350 Li-ion cell and rides in a front pants pocket 24/7 (light on the left in photo below, though I no longer use the grip ring on the light);




    The other light in the photo above is a specialized defensive-use light. It's also a Lego using the same brand names but utilizes a single output, high-intensity 70,000-candela Malkoff head powered by an IMR 18500 high-current cell through an Oveready ZeroRez insert. It will easily deprive an assailant's use of their vision when the narrow-but-insanely-bright beam is directed into their dark-adapted eyes. It's used with a "cigar hold" and works perfectly for me in conjunction with a pistol, so I don't use a dedicated WML for handguns. I use this daily as well, though I carry it a kydex holster that I clip on my belt when venturing out at night;






    The third light that gets used daily is the walk-the-dog light, which is kept on a small table near the rear door where we take the dogs out. This is a 100% Malkoff light and as expected, it is extremely durable and reliable;




    In terms of WMLs, I keep a Malkoff mounted on my 1187, which is my primary SD long gun. I've run this light setup in a few SG classes - it is 100% reliable and up to the abuse of shotgun mounting;






    For the carbine I use a VLTOR picatinny 1-inch mount so I can mount anything I want when needed, including the Hound Dog Super (1700 lumens/75K candela) shown in the third photo below;










    The ability to configure lights for different applications is a major big-deal to me, plus Legoing different combinations is a lot of fun to experiment with.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    SoCal
    Over the past 25+ years I have gone from owning most every Surefire, to lots of customs and Lego, to finding the perfect tactical/duty/edc UI/size/power combo. I have basically arrived at a balance of keeping up with technology at a decent price and reliability for the mission. I keep buying other lights to check them out but Klarus has basically cornered the tactical niche for me...

    EDC
    Klarus E1 and E2. Perfect UI. Power. Size. It does get hot quick on full power but you can just click it down for admin tasks.

    Duty
    Klarus XT21X. Perfect UI. POWER. Fills the hand but not huge. Big battery.

    Nightstand
    Klarus 360x2. Extra easy UI and switch which sadly precludes it from belt or reliable pouch carry.

    General
    Klarus XT12X. Smaller predecessor to the XT21X but perfect UI and power in the traditional SF 6Pish size.

    Weapon
    SF X300UB on Duty G17 and M4 shotgun
    Streamlight TLR7B on G19 edc
    Cloud REIN on big LPVO AR
    SF X300UB or TLR1S on everything else
    Surefire still rules the day for WMLs in reliability, size, and switching.

    Hope this helps!

    Dennis.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanch View Post
    how you choose to upgrade them and what you do with the old ones.
    WMLs aside, "losing them" seems to be the obvious upgrade path.

    I don't see anything in that post that is in the "need" category. You could probably make do with a lot less. I get by with a Malkoff'd 3D maglite, Surefire E1B "tactical" light and a Surefire Titan keychain light.

    I'm still on the fence as to whether it's worth the time and effort to have more than one transient Streamlight TLR1 to serve as a WML. So having a dated but functional Surefire on each of a half dozen uppers is probably already more than enough imo.

  6. #6
    I keep it simple with lights.

    I have a couple of Surefire G2Xs and one 1K lumen aluminum bodied light that I can’t find on their website because it’s turned into an unnavigable mess of lifestyle collection bullshit and now I will NEVER buy any Surefire product ever again.

    I don’t do mounted pistol lights and my carbines all wear Arisaka lights and mounts.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    I toggle between 3 edc lights-

    1. Circa 1992 Surefire 6P with an Malkoff M61 450 Lumen head running CR123s or rechargeables.
    2. Circa 2009 Quark 4-Sevens 200-250 lumens (High/High Strobe) running a single CR123 or rechargeable originally purchased at the "direction" of TLG (RIP).
    3. Circa 2008 Surefire E1B upgraded with a Valant Enterprises/Malkoff Bezel and a Malkoff M61 head for 300+ lumens with a rechargeable.

    I too like max bright or max strobe with a single push. The only variable interface I have liked is my Circa 2004 Gladius.

    I have a 250 lumen Streamlight LED headlamp I scout with which replaced an 80 lumen Princeton Tec.

    I no longer have any Maglites though carried a 5 cell C in the car way back in the day based on input form guys who said that it gave up little brightness relative to a 5 cell D and was much handier in every kinetic way.

    My weapons lights on one shotgun and one carbine are 200-320 Lumen Surefires G2 LEDs in Viking Tactics mounts.

    My one pistol light in a 120ish Lumen Streamlight which is plenty bright for the inside of my house.

    In more than 1 day and less than 5 years, I suspect that my EDCs will stay roughly the same.

    The lights on my shotgun and carbines may go up to 600-1000 Lumen Surefires/Elzettas/Malkoffs etc.

    The light on my pistol will likely go up to whatever I can get in a streamlight that is in the same size envelope.

    If my life depended on these lights a la MIL/GOVT/LEO, they would all be Surefire/Malkoff/Elzetta/Made in the USA Streamlights.

    As an aside, I am choosing not to send any money to the PRC when I can help it. This is especially difficult to do in the light realm. I must acknowledge that Klarus, Nitecore and O-light are making some very innovative, bright, well made stuff that absolutely exceeds the intersection of quality/value.
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  8. #8
    Member TGS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Back in northern Virginia
    I like the emerging USB rechargeable options. For EDC, the Streamlight 2L-X USB and Streamlight USB Macrostream...for long guns, the Surefire Scout 600DF USB.

    The Macrostream is a great size light. More of a proper size for doing work than the Microstream, and a bit smaller than the 2L-X which is on the bigger side for EDC (in my opinion, I know some guys on the internet claim to daily carry giant fucking lights).
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

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