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Thread: Damn Red Dots!

  1. #41
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I think you should have usable BUIS on your carry gun, as a backup to dot failure, a work around if your index fails you, and for if you can’t find the dot in a weird position. I also think you should leave BUIS off your competition gun as you need to learn to shoot with a target focus, and getting rid of BUIS will just speed that along.
    Excellent, this makes sense. I like not having to take off the existing rear sight off the G34 slide, buy a new rear tall sight, re-zero the optic etc. etc. etc. I did go ahead and buy a 10 8 0.315" plain black front to mess around with on the G34, just so I can try shooting with a front sight and an optic, while I figure out what's the best way to turn my current non-MOS G48 into one with an optic. I can take that front sight off later, and maybe use it on a carry gun.

    I let my wife shoot my G34+Holosun today.

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    Her reaction after this was pretty interesting. I may need more optics.

  2. #42
    I’m about a thousand rounds and a lot of dry work into a 19X / RM06 and I’m not as blown away with it as I thought I would be.

    I really haven’t had much trouble with dot acquisition as my presentation with a Glock is pretty ingrained after 20 years of living with them.

    Up close shots are doable, probably as fast, as accurate, but I find that if I don’t get the dot during the press out then I fuck around for a second, still don’t get it, and point shoot. Unless the target is far enough away, then I’ll slow down, use the front sight to clean up, and then make the shot.

    15 yards and beyond? Fukkin awesome. No comparison.

    Low/no light? I’m still not as comfortable with it. With an X300 the silhouette of the irons is easier to pick up than the dot especially when moving.

    I thought this was going to be like going from irons to an Aimpoint when we first started putting them on ARs, but the difference is that ARs with an Aimpoint are more forgiving of mount/presentation than with irons, and the handgun is much more dependent on good presentation.

    To me, the MRDS vs irons on a handgun is more akin to LPVO vs RDS on an AR.

    I think they definitely have their place and I think it’s a great tool to have, but they’re not an across the board improvement over irons for *my* application of a handgun.

    I’m still learning this, so my opinion may change as time goes by.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    I’m about a thousand rounds and a lot of dry work into a 19X / RM06 and I’m not as blown away with it as I thought I would be.

    I really haven’t had much trouble with dot acquisition as my presentation with a Glock is pretty ingrained after 20 years of living with them.

    Up close shots are doable, probably as fast, as accurate, but I find that if I don’t get the dot during the press out then I fuck around for a second, still don’t get it, and point shoot. Unless the target is far enough away, then I’ll slow down, use the front sight to clean up, and then make the shot.

    15 yards and beyond? Fukkin awesome. No comparison.

    Low/no light? I’m still not as comfortable with it. With an X300 the silhouette of the irons is easier to pick up than the dot especially when moving.

    I thought this was going to be like going from irons to an Aimpoint when we first started putting them on ARs, but the difference is that ARs with an Aimpoint are more forgiving of mount/presentation than with irons, and the handgun is much more dependent on good presentation.

    To me, the MRDS vs irons on a handgun is more akin to LPVO vs RDS on an AR.

    I think they definitely have their place and I think it’s a great tool to have, but they’re not an across the board improvement over irons for *my* application of a handgun.

    I’m still learning this, so my opinion may change as time goes by.
    There is a substantial learning curve with a PMO -- like months and years. Smaller displays making acquiring the dot on the presentation harder. An RMR is an optic with a small display.

    A suggestion is, during practice, stop when you don't get the dot, and analyze what was wrong. Then see if you can eliminate what caused the problem. Also, make sure you are really looking at the target and allowing the dot to appear over the target, versus looking for the dot and moving the dot to the target. Some people tape over the front of the optic lens in practice to help assure true target focus.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #44
    Yeah I think when I don’t see the dot I start looking at the optic and rolling my wrist around to get it to come into view and that’s when I just look back at the target and send it.

    I will try taping over the lens. I habe seen that done with Aimpoints to get people to use both eyes.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    Yeah I think when I don’t see the dot I start looking at the optic and rolling my wrist around to get it to come into view and that’s when I just look back at the target and send it.

    I will try taping over the lens. I habe seen that done with Aimpoints to get people to use both eyes.
    I hate always and never, but generally I find that rolling the wrist fishing for the dot doesn't work. What does seem to work is fully extending so everything is locked up and that causes the dot to appear. Between the Holosun's larger display and the circle reticle option, the H optic is easier to find the dot with than an RMR.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  6. #46
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I think you should have usable BUIS on your carry gun, as a backup to dot failure, a work around if your index fails you, and for if you can’t find the dot in a weird position. I also think you should leave BUIS off your competition gun as you need to learn to shoot with a target focus, and getting rid of BUIS will just speed that along.
    No where near as proficient as you are with them but this is exactly how I have my guns. Glock 19 gun that I would carry has sights that sit in the lower portion of the optic window so I can use them if needed but ignore them most of the time.

    Glock 45 I use for USPSA CO has sights that do not clear the optic body at all because I kind of don't care; if I can't find the dot well then I guess I need to practice and if the dot dies in the middle of a match it's not a great day but my life doesn't depend on it.

  7. #47
    Interesting conversation on a range today at a match. A gentleman mentioned that Rob Leatham, who certainly can comment on shooting has a video out on acquiring the dot. I haven’t found it yet, but reportedly Leatham is saying a good deal of dry practice should be the presentation from where hands come together to extension, picking up the dot extending. Do it over and over and over. Then work on live fire, etc.
    Makes sense to me.
    An Aimpoint instructor over a year ago commented that if one has a pretty good index, but don’t immediately pick up the dot, push the pistol/sight down and it should appear. Rarely is the dot off to one side.
    I found that to be true for me also.
    I also think for me I have to dry fire for acquisition at least a few times a week for my confidence/comfort…

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I hate always and never, but generally I find that rolling the wrist fishing for the dot doesn't work. What does seem to work is fully extending so everything is locked up and that causes the dot to appear. Between the Holosun's larger display and the circle reticle option, the H optic is easier to find the dot with than an RMR.
    In my case, I found it was head position, which then caused me to realize my stance with iron sights was poor, which lead to a bunch of other improvements and a general realization I needed to refocus on fundamentals.

  9. #49
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Wasatch Front
    Quote Originally Posted by NoTacTravis View Post
    Have you tried putting painters tape on the front of the optic yet? It will pretty much force you to use both eyes.
    This ^^^ is one of the advantages in seeking, getting a PMO class. Yeah, I'm biased.

    One of the two or three most positive feedback-generating things I have in my red dot classes is taping over the downrange lens - with painter's tape. Regularly that drill, repeated frequently in the class, is commented on as having the biggest impact early.

    Things that I thought made sense in '11 and '12 were debunked, blown out of the water when I re-visited PMOs and took others classes.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    This ^^^ is one of the advantages in seeking, getting a PMO class. Yeah, I'm biased.

    One of the two or three most positive feedback-generating things I have in my red dot classes is taping over the downrange lens - with painter's tape. Regularly that drill, repeated frequently in the class, is commented on as having the biggest impact early.

    Things that I thought made sense in '11 and '12 were debunked, blown out of the water when I re-visited PMOs and took others classes.
    That was certainly the case for me, when you pulled out that roll of blue tape at Gunsite. Nothing teaches “target focus” like that exercise. And I will say it again- getting good instruction is the “easy button” to save time and ammo (and therefore, $) when learning the PMO.

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