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Thread: Damn Red Dots!

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post

    You guys who shoot dots, would you agree with this?
    Yes but I don't see much value in that conclusion. Obviously, this is a diagnostic test only, nobody's gonna move their head to find the dot in any shooting situation. At the end you still need to learn to get target, dot, and eye in one plane and I am not sure what practical step comes out of that test's results. I've observed both instances, dot is close on but I don't see it right away, and dot is nowhere on and I don't see it. The former for me is invariably heeling the gun on very close targets, dot hides behind upper hoop, and is much rarer than just screwing up index to the side altogether. The solution is the same for both scenarios.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  2. #22
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    The former for me is invariably heeling the gun on very close targets, dot hides behind upper hoop, and is much rarer than just screwing up index to the side altogether. The solution is the same for both scenarios.
    Gotcha.

    I can totally see where you are coming from. I started out in dry practice doing presentations, and at first I'm like where's the dot? There's supposed to be a dot?! I had so many burned in reps with my iron sights that target acquisition and sight picture were totally off at first. Now, after a few days of work, I'm seeing the dot kind of magically appear, more and more often.

  3. #23
    Hammertime
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.E. Kelley View Post
    I have yet to take a shooting class, probably won't, but certainly a good idea for anyone who wants to shorted the curve.
    Quote Originally Posted by P.E. Kelley View Post
    [/COLOR][/SIZE]

    And yes, I was a USPSA GM and Master NRA Bullseye, Master Service Rifle, Master Handgun Silhouette and some other stuff.
    Gasp! How is it possible to be a a great self taught shooter without taking classes!! /sarc










    Sorry, not sorry, sometimes I think PF pushes the "you can only learn this skill in a class" aspect of things too hard.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Glock View Post
    Gasp! How is it possible to be a a great self taught shooter without taking classes!! /sarc

    Sorry, not sorry, sometimes I think PF pushes the "you can only learn this skill in a class" aspect of things too hard.
    This would make a great new thread.

    I generally would take the other side of the bet when using “only, always, must or never.”
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #25
    In my lengthy four weeks of experience I have has a couple of times where I thought I was back on target (typically following a reload) but the dot wasn't there and it took me some time to find it. It has occurred to me that I was just fixin to miss those targets anyway, I just wouldn't have had a dot to blame...

    And at this point most of my shooting is gathering with a group of friends on Sundays, we setup some targets and makeup scenarios that vary in complexity, depending on how many people showed up and how many brought their steel with them (with a little cardboard also in the mix). Also depending on how many people show up (not many yesterday, ~15F...) and how many drills we run (not many yesterday, ~15F...), and how well I do, this might only amount to 45-90sec total per week. I zeroed the optic with a laser boresighter and it hit well enough I have not needed to touch it. So my total trigger time is less than five minutes, but that said:

    I have not had so much difficulty transitioning. One thing I did do was migrate to a twin of the pistol I have been shooting every week for two years, and that maybe matters. I think the shots that I have struggled with are shots I probably would have taken and missed, instead of not shooting because the dot wasn't on target (so maybe there might be a consideration for LE there?).

    But I agree with PEK, people have handed me a dot optic pistol to try and it was not as simple and I was not so impressed. I have been shooting either M&Ps or 1911s for probably the last ten years, and after one day a friend let me try his M&P CORE I started making plans to try a dot (and am glad I did). But I also agree that I can take up a dissimilar iron sight gun and make do much easier.

  6. #26
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    In my opinion the best training you can buy is a USPSA match. Look no further than the super seniors running around with a Burris FF in a dovetail mount on their XD.

    Also, I think everyone hyper focuses on dot acquisition off the draw and not enough on acquiring the dot during/ after movement.

    I could be wrong.

    ETA: not addressing Mr Kelly, he’s gonna be fine 😀. Just general thoughts
    Last edited by Quantrill; 02-08-2021 at 04:48 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    This would make a great new thread.

    I generally would take the other side of the bet when using “only, always, must or never.”
    I agree it would make a great thread.

    One of the things that I've found about any class teaching a physical skill, whether it be firearms, driving, etc., is that in general, the class doesn't impart the skills, it imparts the ability to learn the skill.

    I said in general because, in some cases, such as in military or police firearms training where you sometimes get a student who has never fired a pistol or rifle, you indeed do impart skills, but the student also goes away with the ability to improve those skills - if you've done your job.

    In today's world, with all the media sources we have, I don't think it improbable that a dedicated person could attain mastery without attending a formal class.

    But go waaay back, who taught Brian Enos to be Brian Enos? Bill Rogers to be Bill Rogers? Reading Stoeger's books, I get the idea that his has been a journey of self-discovery for the most part.

    That being said, I go to classes because even the best shooters/teachers leave something on the table when writing it all down. I had practically memorized Training at the Speed of Life before attending a class with Ken Murray and still learned a great deal from him while attending his course.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Look no further than the super seniors running around with a Burris FF in a dovetail mount on their XD.
    How old are you? Asking for a friend who hopes he lives long enough to see you become a super senior so he can mock you.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    How old are you? Asking for a friend who hopes he lives long enough to see you become a super senior so he can mock you.
    Old enough to not be offensive to super seniors.

    It wasn’t a mock. I can’t believe I’m going to entertain you but here goes:

    It was a compliment. Dudes beyond their physical prime, with non - sexy gear, going to a match and shooting dots. I know several of them and none of them had to take a specific dot class.

    Edit for spelling

  10. #30
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    44 Years of carrying an Iron Sighted Pistol Professionally is hard to overcome. I've taken a class with Scott Jedlinski and done the dry fire and live fire drills, but it's still a struggle to find the dot as quickly or consistently as finding my Iron Sights. And nobody gets to do 10 minutes of dry presentations before a gunfight.
    Be Aware-Stay Safe. Gunfighting Is A Thinking Man's Game. So We Might Want To Bring Thinking Back Into It.

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